Bank on Banking

This is a topic that I am asked about at least once every several emails so, in the interest of helping everyone, including those wondering but too shy (or lazy) to ask, I have decided to put out this article on cracking the phone meeting (on your way, of course, to the Banker Interview). For many people it is a tricky obstacle course that can easily do more harm than good if you don’t have your wits about you and/or are not ready to make the most of it. I have broken this article up into three sections to make it both more reader friendly, and easier to jump around incase you are only interested in this section vs. the other two. The three sections are: 1) Questions to ask, and why ask them, 2) Strategies/Tips to use when conducting a call, and 3) Little Extras for Continuing the Relationship. So, without any further delay, let’s jump right into it! As usual, leave any comments or additions below – they are always welcome. (Aside: I apologize in advance as this is a rather lengthy article – important, but lengthy)

Questions to ask and why

What do you see as an effective avenue/strategy that students take to get into banking?

I am a big fan of this question because it is always interesting and helpful to see what people inside of the business think works, or even what they have personally seen work (whether for themselves or colleagues). This is a good question that allows your contact to express his/her opinion across a variety of fields – it doesn’t have to be specific, it can be academic, club focused, resume tips, interviewing/networking hints, papers to read, etc – let your contact run with it, and if he asks for clarification, just say “anything networking related, or taking a lot of business courses, etc,” to get him/her started.

What are some of the biggest missteps that you have seen interns/first years make?

This is always a fun question, as it often leads to a “funny story,” that he/she once saw, or heard, or even did themselves. It often adds a bit of levity to the conversation, which is always good, while at the same time allowing the person to communicate one, or a few faux pas that you should surely avoid. Remember, don’t laugh too hard though, or make fun of the story in a negative way, besides for the obvious reasons, the “intern” could have been your contact. Keep it light hearted, but, remember, you’re not having a beer with some buddies.

I your contact is an alumni, then something like how did you break into banking – what strategies worked best, and what did you find to be a waste of time? If not alumni, same question, but first find out what school the person went to and then approach the question knowing whether it was a target, semi-target or non-target.

I know someone will ask me what does it matter if he/she is an alumni, and the simple answer is path and difficulty of entry. If the contact is an alumni, then he/she should have suffered similar barriers to entry, at least in a Target/academic prestige sense, if the contact is not an alumni, then it depends on whether the person comes from a target, semi-target or non-target compared to where you go to school. If you come from a non-Target, and he/she graduated from a semi-Target, the strategy may be a little different, so you have to take that into consideration when weighing the benefits of some of the routes you have and have not taken. Whether your contact is an alum of your school or not, how they broke into the business and what they found worked vs. what wasted time, can absolutely help you on your path, which is why this question is among the questions I recommend asking.

What other industries do you recommend I consider given my interest in banking (can substitute for finance, an analytically demanding corporate environment), and what do you think makes XX company (his/her company) stand out?

This is just a good question to gauge exactly what is good and bad about your contact’s company, while at the same time showing that you are not just after any job, but rather that fit counts on both sides of the coin – both to the company regarding you, and to you regarding the company as an employer. This question shows that you understand the demands of the job, and the importance of working for a decent company, while at the same time understanding the extreme competition facing candidates trying to break in (hence the first part regarding other industries both that your contact considered at the time, as well as other industries that he thinks could offer a similar experience now, having worked in the business a year, 2, 4, etc).

What strategies have you seen or heard work pretty well to get a foot in the door?

This is more of an alternative question to one of the previous questions regarding strategy. While this question is a bit vaguer in nature, it is also shorter and more direct – as in how can I best position myself to break into an analyst position in IB, as opposed to what are some helpful things I can do in school to help me stand out. Both questions are fine; one focuses more on a given topic, while the other is looser, but absolutely to the point. In this case, it is more a matter of feeling out your contact and deciding whether he is a talker with a lot of good info to dish out, or whether he is knowledgeable, but needs to be guided before giving a really helpful response.

What kind of research/reading would you recommend, besides WSJ, FT, Dealbreaker and such? I have heard several people talking about modeling courses and such; Is it worth it to learn some modeling ahead of starting the job, or even interviewing for it?

This is one of those questions that you don’t want to lead off with, but rather start to wind things up with as it is a bit “nerdy,” albeit valid, and, as such, you want to have the conversation running smoothly before jumping into this one. A lot of people will say don’t ask this – but at the same time, half of those people will say don’t ask this question, you should definitely learn modeling first, and the other half will say it is a waste of time – so clearly there is a bit of a question here. In phrasing this question, you want it to come off not as a drilling issue, but rather, as something casual that you have heard in passing, and you are just wondering if there is any merit to it, or is it just fluff. It’s always good to know of other places to go to learn more about the business, the market, the industry, the position, etc, and insiders often know the best places. Regarding the modeling aspect of it, keep it casual, and don’t drill him/her with a ton of additional follow-up questions – if he/she says no, I don’t think you need it because of X and Y, let it go, don’t keep pressuring it as it shouldn’t be, by any means, the most important question that you ask.

Touch quickly on your background, and then inquire as to what steps/sell pitch/strategy would probably work very well for someone with your background.

Another addition to, or supplement to the standard strategy question. This is a great question to ask assuming the candidate is either not an alum or is an alum (of your school, not in general – I assume he/she graduated) with a different background/set of pre-FT experiences than you. In this case, you first get that person’s experience and strategy to break in, and then his/her take on someone from your background should attach the opportunity – whether it be similar, the same, or different – more knowledge on this front is certainly useful.

There are definitely many more questions that can be asked based on mutual interests (to follow-up and/or keep the convos going and relatable), follow-up/piggybacking questions on answers given to previous questions, and entirely new questions that are on your mind. I figured this was at least a decent start and can get you thinking about the types of questions to ask, and those not to ask – now run with it!

Strategies

The first strategy is a pretty simple one and it involves the initial introduction/contact email. In short, keep the initial email short and to the point. Don’t’ ramble on and on about dreams, goals, interests, fire off 50 questions, and tell him/her your life story (yes, I’m embellishing, but it’s for a good cause). Instead, mention your connection (alumni, friend of a friend, colleagues with a friend etc), your reason for contacting the person (interest in banking, looking for tips on nailing a SA interview, or something between), your interest (as in a meeting, a phone call, etc), thank them in advance for any help or the like, and off you go (spell check, grammar check, and click send). Save the conversation for the meeting, or at least the follow-up email (after the person responds assuming they want to answer questions via email at first, for whatever reason) – you don’t want to overwhelm the person, nor should you want to waste your time typing a long email only just to be ignored.

Next, on the same topic of introductory emails, do not attach your resume. A lot of people ask me this question – whether they should attach their resume to their initial email to a contact, and my response is always “no.” While he/she may very well ask for your resume in the response email, or at some point down the road, let them ask for it, do not shove it in his/her face. When you attach your resume to that first email you are immediately saying, “help me, help me,” whether you want help or honestly just a bit of advice from an insider. There is no reason to put that kind of pressure on your contact before even getting to know the person. You don’t want to scare him/her off, nor do you want that person to think that he/she is being used just as a resume dropper – as in, you don’t care what the person has to say as long as said person drops your resume in the box. Don’t be that person – let the relationship develop, and approach that issue, if the contact doesn’t do it first.

Regarding the call itself, it is of course important to show some enthusiasm and some interest in the conversation and what your contact has to say, but remember, too much excitement looks a hell of a lot more like creepy/obsessive than interested. I know you want to put your best foot forward, but don’t let that excitement take you down the “creepy” path. On the opposite side of the coin, no one likes to talk to themselves (or a wall), so be sure to be engaged in the conversation and participate (without stepping all over your contact’s answers and sentences). Essentially, the name of the game here is moderation – be interested and enthusiastic, but not over the top; participate in the conversation and help create a flowing back and forth, but don’t step all of his/her answers to get your point out.

Along the same lines as the previous point, make sure that you stay calm, stay relaxed, and pace yourself throughout the conversation. If you are speeding through your questions and answers, it not only looks like you are unorganized and nervous, but also that you genuinely don’t know how to conduct yourself on a business call (not a good thing to a banker). So keep your cool and make it an enjoyable conversation.

Always leave something in the gas tank. In other words, don’t ask every single question you could possibly think of, plus every single follow up question during the first call. First of all, you don’t want to shock (scare off) the person who is kind enough to take a few minutes to answer a few of your question. The last thing you want is for the contact to feel as if it is he/she that is being interviewed, or drilled as if they were the victim of a massive government interrogation session (yes, I’m exaggerating, but the point is still valid). Second, if you ask every question during that first call, you won’t have any “quality” questions left to ask during a follow-up email/call. Asking just a few questions during that first call both leaves the door open for follow-up contact (which is the name of the game) and allows you to relax and treat the opportunity more like conversation than a scripted interview. The more comfortable the person is, the more likely the conversation is to continue at a later date. Hence the contact remains, well, in contact.

I know that your ultimate goal is to break into banking – land a FT, an SA, whatever. I also know that your contact knows (or should know) this as well. However, just because all of the parties know that you want to break into banking does not mean you should cut around all of the pleasantries (you know, the networking, the questions, the follow-up phone calls and emails, getting to know the person a little better, etc) and instead go straight for “the kill,” as in immediately ask the person to check out your resume and submit it. Simply put: do not go straight for the kill – it’s a marathon, not a sprint. It’s not a 500-mile marathon, but rather a 5-10 mile road race – in other words, you’re not pacing yourself for years of foundation, but a few calls or emails before getting down to business (unless the contact asks sooner) would be nice. I know that most of you are sitting there thinking, “of course I need to pace myself, I know that, I’m not going to ask for the person to do things for me before they can even remember my name.” Unfortunately, that’s not the case for ALL of you. I have been asked numerous times a variation of “how do I get my contact to submit my email,” which has been often followed up by a variation of, “we’ve exchanged an email and even spoke on the phone for a few minutes, but still nothing.” Yes, I know talking on the phone for 3 minutes and exchanging an introductory email seems like a lot of work, but it often takes just a little more than that. Some contacts are eager to help right away – others are more selective and take their time. Regardless of the type of contact you are faced with, remember to pace yourself, don’t be pushy and take it in stride –this shouldn’t be your only contact, so cast a wide net and play the game for a while.

Little Extras for Continuing the Relationship

Send a thank you email with a follow-up question or two several hours after the conclusion of the phone call or coffee meeting. Not more than a few lines should do it – essentially thank them again for their time and for answering a few questions. Ask a follow-up question and close it. This quick, small gesture can go a long way in showing your appreciation and professional prowess, so take a few minutes and just do it.

Touch base every several weeks or so to keep the contact fresh, and, if you need to, set up another call. Treat this follow-up email in a similar manner as you would the thank you email. Keep it brief and include a brief update on what’s been going on with you, a few general questions of the contact, and, if still fairly light on content, feel free to include another follow-up question similar to those asked during the call.

That should pretty much cover it. I know it sounds like quite a bit of work, but, remember, if executed properly, these small gestures and efforts can go a long way in your efforts to land an interview and, ultimately, break into investment banking! Stay tuned for upcoming posts on the MBA Essay, Networking like a Banker, Interview with a Banker, and much more! As usual, leave comments below, and send any questions here.