Bank on Banking

Don’t Forget About The Limited Time Offer!

I’m currently in a high school/associates degree program and will be attending a non-target, but solid school this fall. I am wondering if it is possible to break into banking with just my associate degree. If not, how can I position myself to get into IB (BB or possibly MM/boutique) with my U Grad? Finally, if I can’t get into IB out of U Grad, how easy will it be to get into IB from a top B school?

Let me tackle your questions 1 at a time. First, you can forget about breaking into IB without a Bachelors degree – the Associates degree is not going to do it, so move right on to breaking in from U Grad. Moving on to your U grad, while you’ve got a chance at breaking into a BB from the non-target (see Here), you will definitely have much more opportunity with regional boutiques and MM shops. That said, it is possible to get into BB shops, it will just require a lot more work, networking and some luck – you should definitely try though and landing some IB-related internships with smaller shops ahead of your junior SA (or at least FT) recruiting will definitely help.

Finally, regarding your MBA ideas, attending a top MBA will definitely be your best shot at breaking into BB IB – but let’s not make the mistake of assuming you will be able to get in straight out of U Grad, or even after 2 years of any-old work experience. It is very, very difficult to break into these top (not just top 5 or 10, but even top 15) schools and it is by no means a given after 2-3 years of experience. Therefore, while this is definitely your best bet, getting to that stage is anything but a definite at this point and will require some serious work on your part (check out my 2-part series on getting into B school Here and Here).

For now, focus on getting into U grad and doing very well. From there, you can position yourself for IB (whether BB or not) and then you can decide if an MBA is right for you, and, if it is, you can make the big push.

I plan on applying for summer internships in IB and am wondering what steps I should take to prepare myself for landing a good summer internship ahead of senior year. How much knowledge should I have about finance and accounting before going into interviews?

In terms of what you need to know for an interview (check This and This out for help with your upcoming interviews), this all depends on your major – if you are a finance/accounting major (or at least have some solid relevant coursework on your resume), you should definitely be comfortable with valuation, financial statements, etc. If, however, you are a non-business major (without this type of relevant coursework), you should be focused on more of the fit questions, but still have at least a basic understand of the financial statements – just so that you aren’t stumped by the most basic “walk me through the 3 financial statements” type of questions.

Next, in terms of next steps, you want to reach out to your alumni database and start networking as much as you can – of course, the better the school you attend – non vs. semi vs. target – the more alumni connections you will be able to make and utilize. Beyond that, you want to make sure you’ve got a solid resume and cover letter to showcase your skills.

Beyond that, while IB is your ultimate goal, don’t become entirely fixated on BB IB for SA opportunities – don’t forget about MM and boutique shops or even other relevant fields such as S&T, consulting, boutique P/E, etc. Keep your options open and, of course, cast a wide net in terms of applications and networking.

I’ve been networking a lot lately, and a few contacts have asked me for my resume. I just got a job that I started in late may (non-finance) – is it worth it to include this in my resume? Also, at what point should a job description be included in your resume (1 month, 6, etc)?

Once you start a position you can include it on your resume, and as you perform valuable (relevant to IB) tasks, definitely include them on your resume.

More specifically, to your first question, it really depends on the type of internship to which you are referring. Although it is not finance related, it can still be relevant – consulting, ops, accounting, etc can all be tweaked to appear very relevant to the skill sets necessary in IB (analytical, quant, attention to detail, leadership, writing, team work, etc). If, however, you are working in a fast-food shop, or as a bar tender, for example, that is not terribly relevant, and doesn’t need to be included in your resume (instead just use it as a means of earning some extra income as you search for a more relevant internship/position). Essentially you want to showcase as much relevant experience as you can, but relevant is the key word – you don’t want to give a mixed message as to what you want to do. An exception to this rule would be if you are entering your senior year and don’t have any work experience listed at all – in this case, it is better to list something, even if it is not completely relevant, but at least business related, on your resume (I would still leave off the fast-food cashier position though – for the record).

I understand GS TMT/MS M&A are widely regarded as the top of totem pole when it comes to PE recruiting, but how about other groups at GS/MS? Essentially, if given the opportunity to work at a top boutique, which other groups at GS/MS would be comparable or better for recruiting? Should I base it all of group or worry about fit?

First, just because M&A is a top feeder and GS TMT is a top group, it does not mean that the other groups are inferior. When it comes to P/E recruiting you need to figure out 2 things – 1) do you prefer M&A/Leveraged Finance or an Industry and 2) if an industry, then which industry? While M&A and Lev Fin are highly sought after, if you have a particular industry focus and end up in that particular industry at a bank like MS or GS, then you will definitely be in good shape for P/E recruiting since you’ll have industry expertise and will have some M&A exposure in that industry (especially if your group happens to do some of its modeling as many groups do) as well as working for a top bank.

Next, there is nothing stopping you from pursuing numerous employers and picking the best option. Essentially, if you get an offer with Blackstone, for example, and get another offer with MS and find out that MS M&A is only hiring 1 analyst, then Blackstone might be a better fit. If, however, you are networking with some of the MS bankers in M&A, your chances are much better. Additionally, when ranking your groups, you can rank M&A as #1, then lev fin, then Sponsors, then an industry or 2 of choice – you should get one of those options if not one of your top 2 or 3 (even without a bunch of networking, although networking does help).

Remember, while boutiques are great, their reach outside of the IB/PE space are not as strong as top BBs such as GS and MS. A strong BB on your resume in your industry of choice, for example, can open many doors in terms of future IB, P/E, corporate finance/development and so forth down the line, while some of the most prestigious boutiques aren’t known that much outside of the IB or P/E worlds (although this isn’t necessarily a bad thing if those are the worlds you are targeting).

At the end of the day, I would push for M&A, Lev Fin, Sponsors and an industry group of choice. Beyond that, I would really focus on fit and culture – you will be spending a lot of time there and the happier bankers or at least the less angry/disgusted bankers get the better projects, reviews and recommendations (usually).