First, let’s get into the “What” of your bullet points, as in what types of information, projects, etc you should include in your resume. Contrary to popular belief, when it comes to information in a resume, more is certainly not always better. A clean resume with a decent amount of white space doesn’t necessarily mean that you lack experience, but rather, that you have created a reader-friendly resume recruiters will want to scan. Whether you lack experience will be determined from the information in your bullet points, not how much space you can take up on the page. Now that we’ve got that out of the way, let’s focus on what should be included.

In short, you first want to do a bit of homework, if not on the company, then at least on the field/position in question. If, for example, you are pursuing an IB analyst position, check out some job descriptions and see what they’re customary responsibilities and projects will entail and the skill sets required. Next, take an honest look at each of your experiences and ask yourself what you’ve done there that would be relevant, applicable, helpful and/or useful to the position. From there, you will have the basis for what you should include in your bullet points, listing the most relevant and/or impressive first, since many recruiters will only look at a bullet point or two per experience, so you want to lead off with your best foot to inspire the person to read on.

So this highlights what should be included in your resume in general, but let’s take a few minutes to cover what should be included in your resume specifically for targeting IB (and similarly for consulting, S&T and buyside, though there may be some tweaking). First and foremost, any types of projects that involved valuation, financial modeling, or analyzing company financials should be included in your resume. While it is very easy to say that without IB-type of experience you won’t have any of this sort of experience, that isn’t the case. In fact, operations and control, middle office, all of the above positions and even things like PWM can involve projects that are comparable to these types of projects. For example, while in F500 operations you might not be valuing companies for acquisition opportunities, you can very well be using excel to forecast budgets, check internal financials, etc, which can all be included on your resume as relevant experience.

Next on your list you can look towards projects that involve research, particularly on specific industries and companies so that you can point to detailed evaluation and a strong knowledge base for the field – this will be particularly useful if, for example, you are researching technology and applying for a position in the technology space or technology IB or just interested in working in some capacity within the field going forward. Although not as important on the surface as the first and second points, this next point is still relevant and worthwhile to include: documentation work. Having a strong written proficiency is both a welcome and essential quality of a successful analyst, associate, and up the chain. Therefore, work that you have done involving drafting information books, presentations, distribution materials, primers, etc, are all welcome additions to your resume – provided of course, it doesn’t consume the entire resume at the expense of the other points listed here. Finally, and although listed last is definitely not least important, are projects for which you took on more of a leadership/managerial role or even a proactive role going beyond what was asked of you. This is a vague category and for good reason as it can be combined with any of the above points or, depending on the experience, can involve something else entirely demonstrating leadership.

So now that we’ve ran through what should be included in your bullet points, let’s go through the construction (or components) of a bullet point regardless of category. I like to break each bullet point into up to three components (I say up to three since you might not always have been responsible for or need to include all three): 1) what you did (which is explained above), 2) how and for what purpose you did what you did, and 3) the result or impact on the group as a result of the work you performed or project you worked on.

We’ve already covered the “what,” so now let’s jump into the “how” and “purpose.” It’s very easy to form a bullet point as follows:”Built a DCF model and performed comparable transaction analysis.” Unfortunately, this doesn’t do anything more than tell me at the very least you worked on a DCF model and spread some comps for fun or as part of a test assignment – maybe, if you’re lucky, it was for a deal that didn’t go anywhere. Now if that is the case, then it is fine to leave the bullet as is. However, if you performed this task for multiple projects (mandated or closed, for example) in a specific industry, that adds another level of importance to the bullet point and gives me a much better understanding of what you did, learned and can contribute to your next team. A new bullet point, yet still simple, can look more like this: “Built DCF and comparable company models for several pending transactions in the oil and gas space.” As another example, if you performed some research for an information memo you put together for a deal, instead of simple stating that you research the oil and gas industry for deal X, you can also include your utilization of Bloomberg, Cap IQ, etc to highlight how you fulfilled your project, while at the same time showcasing your proficiencies.

Finally, we come to what is possibly the most frequently forgotten aspect when constructing a bullet point – the result and/or impact. Now there is a good reason why this aspect is often not included: simply put, it is not available, meaning there is either no readily quantifiable result or the result doesn’t enhance the experience (for example, the result was just another data point used in a sample). Going back to the DCF bullet point of the previous paragraph – “Built DCF and comparable company models for several pending transactions in the oil and gas space” – we see a bullet point that is strong and perhaps strong enough (but this depends on the actual result). If, for example, the tasks you performed for one or more of these deals led to the decision to increase the purchase price range by 15%, that definitely adds a significant amount of credit to the point and, if included, to the bullet point. The new bullet point can look like this (on a simplistic level): “Built DCF and comparable company models for several pending transactions in the oil and gas space, which resulted in a 10-15% increase in purchase price range for two late-stage deals.” While this is a simple exam, it is merely meant to show the importance of including each of these three attributes (when applicable) in your bullet points. Before closing this article, I just want to touch on a few quick points that are often overlooked by people when constructing their resumes.

A few final points to keep in mind when constructing your bullets are: 1)contrary to popular believe, bullets do not need to be full sentences – as in they are quick points, not complete sentences and although they need to of course make sense, they do not need to start with a proper noun, include all necessary articles, etc, 2) along the same lines, each bullet points should lead off with a past tense verb, and 3) along the same lines again, bullet points do not end with a period, since that would imply a full sentence.

That’s it for now; keep an eye out for some fresh articles and a new product on its way that will certainly help you with your upcoming interview!

I don’t have a great answer for my “greatest accomplishment” as a college student. How should I answer this question in interviews?

Essentially, go with something, whether incredibly impressive or not, that challenged you and allowed you to learn a valuable lesson, grow as a person and/or build useful skills. At the end of the day interviewees get hung up on words like “Greatest, worst, biggest” and so forth, and they don’t need to. These are words used to make you sweat, to scare you and so forth. In reality, go with what you know, what you are comfortable with and what you can show growth from – the accomplishment needs to be important and impressive to you, it needs to matter to you, the interviewer will be impressed with what you got out of it and how hard it was for you to achieve, not the weight of the accomplishment itself.

Here’s some more help with your upcoming interviews:

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Crack the interview code with my Survival Guides

I have some questions on the interview process and what employers are looking for when asking certain questions: 1) how do I prepare for the “pitch me a stock” question, 2) what are they really looking for out of the behavioral interviews – do I need certain answers to impress them, and 3) how should I answer the greatest accomplishment or biggest challenge overcome question?

1. Do your research – find 2-3 stocks across 2-3 industries that you like and have an interest in. From there, do some general research on competition, the market, news, etc. From there, dig into the financials of the company a bit to pull out some ratios and stats relative to competitors. From there, form your opinions – you don’t need to go crazy, but I always recommend stocks in different industries so that you are prepared to pitch a stock outside of your interviewer’s industry.

2. It means you aren’t an asshole, you’re not a tool/obvious suck-up, and that you are decent to talk to. In short, the interviewer (and his/her team) can and wouldn’t mind dealing with you (working with you) at 11pm, when you’ve still got a few hours of work ahead of you.

My main interest is hedge funds and private equity, but from what I understand I have no shot at this straight from undergrad unless I go to wharton. Will other schools help me break into PE or HF and, if not, how do I go from IB to PE? Do I need to get an MBA and then get into PE or HF?

That’s not entirely true – any of the top schools give you a shot – WHYPS and a few others, but it is VERY tough. The best ways to break into PE and HF are either going to IB from u grad, then b school, then PE or HF, OR going from u grad to a solid BB IB position directly to PE or HF. You don’t have to go to B school to get into PE (PE especially) from IB, you can make the direct move – especially if you are targeting PE in general and not elite/top megafund PE. From any solid semi-target you will have access to many of the big banks and from an analyst position there you can break into PE.

On a side note, it’s definitely been a busy several weeks for a variety of reasons ultimately leaving me without much free time to compose articles or properly field questions. Although my schedule will definitely be fairly packed over the next several weeks, it has lightened a bit and I will definitely be returning to a more consistent level of posting and answering questions. And I know I’ve been saying it for a while now, but my new product is absolutely coming very soon and will make the technical side of your upcoming interviews much easier! That said – let’s jump right in!

Although the immediate move from IB to PE/HF/buyside in general results in better compensation initially, is it worth it in the long run? In other words, should one transition to buyside, or stay the course with banking, if possible, and attempt to move into an MD role at a BB, for example? Also, does moving to an MD role at a BB require an MBA degree? In my mind, this seems to be a much safer path than moving to a Hedge Fund, for example, which can go bust, and since differences at the MD level for pay between BB Investment Banks and Buy Side PE firms are little, is the move really worth it?

Ok – that was definitely a mouth/eye/ear full, but I’m going to break out some of the key points and address them accordingly:

1. The move from analyst to MD does NOT require an MBA by any means. However, the path is definitely a one to take and one that often involves layoffs, bank changes, being passed up for opportunities, and so forth. Moving from analyst to associate is one thing; moving from analyst to some sort of VP is another thing, but to go from analyst up to MD is absolutely no small task given the rate of turnover, movement between banks, cyclicality of the business, need for additional resources (meaning MDs aren’t just given – they are doled out based on need of a team or group) and so forth. Don’t get me wrong, it can certainly happen (as needed) and the moves from analyst to VP and D definitely happen, but it often comes with a bumpy and lengthy road. Remember, just because an organization is large or established, it does not automatically follow that your career will be secure and that promotions are natural and easy steps. If there is a big turn in the market, as we’ve all just seen and are continuing to witness these past few years, hedge funds, PE shops, small banks, BB banks and the like were all taking butcher’s knives to their staffs.

2. Even though the progression can happen, it isn’t one of those things where everyone wants to do it and just doesn’t get picked. Most people use IB as not necessarily a stepping stone, but definitely a means of reaching an end, not an end in itself. Post analyst and associate roles are in PE, HF, VC, buyside, boutiques, F500 and so forth and are often far more lucrative for much bigger reasons than dollars. Many people just don’t want to deal with the hours, the stress, the credit committees and internal politics (jumping through hoops to get deals approved and so forth, especially in a still jittery market like this) the NEED for new business, etc – since remember, IB is a sales position at the end of the day, and working for a BB bank means you need to constantly be selling and showing the bank that you are worth the bonus and worth a cube or office on the floor. Even senior bankers work long hours and although they aren’t at their desks for 12, 15+ hours, they are often on the road visiting clients, pitching, negotiating terms and so forth several days per week.

3. At the end of the day, it is really a personal call. If you like the sell-side (IB-side) of the business and many people do, then you will want to stick it out, or possibly pursue an MBA and then get back in to move to a stronger/more prestigious bank, new group, fresh start, etc. If, however, you aren’t passionate or as passionate about IB necessarily and just want to put in the time to gain the contacts and the experience and skill set/transaction knowledge and move on, then becoming a senior banker will definitely not be for you. In that case, you are much better off moving to buyside, in some form, and enjoy.

I wouldn’t bother going to NY unless you’ve got something lined up. At your age, your best bet will be found by searching for unpaid positions, or positions that are PWM, boutique research or back office. While they are not IB, they will provide you with some resume building experience and make for a nice stepping stone into more attractive internships going into your junior and, ultimately, senior years (rising junior and rising senior summers, respectively).

Regarding cold calling, you should definitely take that step, but given your age, you should probably stay local and push more for an opportunity to build your resume rather than a dream opportunity.

Additionally, it’s always a good idea to call on contacts, but you should only call on those you are very close with. Given the positions you are targeting, your age, experience, etc, you don’t want to reach out to all of your contacts so soon. For now, use friends and your closest contacts, then reach wider once you’ve built a bit of a profile/resume for yourself going into next summer or so.

Finally, while you will certainly find more luck heading down the previous avenues I’ve mentioned, far be it from me to squash someone’s go-getter attitude and drive. Absolutely cold call and send some inquiry emails to IBs as well – ideally smaller/boutique shops, merchant banks, and so forth that as local, but definitely take a shot. With a simple cold call or email the worst that happens is you don’t get the position – they won’t remember you next year if you show an interest again – no harm no foul, but with plenty of upside potential.

If an MD wants me as an spring intern (fall, spring), but HR is claiming they don’t do that, should I follow up and make another push? If so, how? Can MDs overrule HR?

MDs often have some clout, but not always enough to go bringing on interns. If you don’t need pay, one option would be to reach back out and ask if you could intern unpaid – essentially just for the experience. That could absolutely set you up for a nice SA position next summer as well.

Otherwise, perhaps there was some sort of a miscommunication either between you and MD or between the MD and HR or you and HR. I would re-trace my steps and touch base with the MD – briefly thank him again for his time and quickly explain what HR told you – then allow him to clarify or express his confusion and look further into the matter.

Why do you suggest removing “Dean’s List” as an honor from your resume if it is your only honor?

Although Dean’s List is an honor and something you’ve achieved, as a standalone it just takes up space and isn’t necessary since anyone with a 3.7 or so or better GPA is on the dean’s list. In other words, it’s not something you’ve been given or something you are being recognized for, but rather, it’s pretty much your status based on your GPA. The fact that you have the GPA is the accomplishment, not that you’ve made the dean’s list. If you have another honor, then feel free to mention it since you’ve got the line anyway, but otherwise, leave it out. You are better off with more free space and since it is implied based on your GPA, it won’t really do anything to help your candidacy.

As a DCM Investment Grade analyst, I want to move on to P/E, but without much modeling experience, how do I sell myself? I have structure knowledge and have worked on numerous deals, but as is the case in Investment Grade DCM, I haven’t dug that deep into them – the mile wide but inch deep saying comes to mind.

Without seeing your resume, the easiest general advice will be to focus on 2 things: 1) big deals you worked on even though the work will be more of the inch-deep in terms of modeling work, and 2) deals and projects you worked on that did involve modeling, strategy and documentation drafting. Investment Grade DCM is known to not have a ton of modeling work, so you will want to show modeling where you can. Specifically, showcase your limited modeling work, documentation work and so forth around your structuring knowledge to illustrate credibility to you claim and capabilities. Beyond that, you want to highlight some big deals in your resume and even cover letter, simply because this is a prestige business. Even though the work won’t be terribly substantial, doing some sort of quality work will aid your cause and if you can get an interview, you are well on your way – then it’s just a matter of selling yourself from a technical (which you seem to have despite limited modeling) and behavioral (no modeling necessary here) perspectives.

I’ve heard that boutiques are usually shadier than BBs and not as desirable to work for – is this true?

Boutiques are not “shadier,” although they are quite different than standard BBs. While a small boutique will not carry the same brand name as a BB, obviously, the work experience can still be very strong (and the experience can be very strong as well in terms of deal responsibilities: modeling, documentation work and so forth). MM shops are highly reputable, similar to that of BBs, and Elite boutiques (such as Lazard and Blackstone) are considered stronger than most BBs excluding GS and MS (although they are on the same level).

In short, if you are looking for a FT IB opportunity that will set you up to move out of IB and into P/E or other buyside, you are better off with BBs, elite boutiques and some MM shops. If you are looking for FT IB to stay in IB, then all are good and smaller boutiques could easily be preferable to many candidates given their interest in retaining and growing talent, rather than the 2-3 and out of traditional BB IB classes. Finally, for an internship, while name brand definitely helps, any IB is solid, especially before junior year summer, and even for junior year SA opportunities, a small boutique IB internship with relevant experience is better than zero IB experience.

Do I need an MBA to break into P/E from IB? Also, is the idea of pre MBA associate to MBA to post MBA associate reserved only to the Mega PE funds or are MM/boutique PE firms less rigid in their hierarchy?

For P/E, you don’t need an MBA if you come out of a strong IB. Whether a solid MM, or preferably, a strong BB or elite boutique. In this case, you can break into PE after your analyst stint and then it is up to you to grow and advance.

It’s not reserved to anyone, but if you don’t come from a top school and top elite boutique or BB, it will be very hard to break into megafund PE without the MBA. That said, it will be very hard to break in with an MBA as well – especially if your MBA isn’t from H or S.

For smaller and mid-sized P/E shops, it is possible to break in from a wider range of IB positions, but if you can’t find an avenue or want an MBA, it is possible to break into P/E from a top B school program as well. Additionally, those B school students who have previous IB or P/E experience will have, at least to an extent, an upper hand in P/E and V/C recruiting given their relevant backgrounds.

I want to get a letter of recommendation from my current MD from my internship for B school. The problem is I won’t be applying for a few years – should I just get a stock letter now?

Most top business schools don’t just require a generic “letter.” Instead, they have a series of questions that they want answered by the recommender. Although I’m sure your employer really likes you, it is just an internship and in 2-3 years time you should be able to find 2 people to recommend you that can call on more recent experiences.

Additionally, if you want to hedge your bets, simply keep in touch with the guy and if you want to use him, then just ask him and provide him with your accomplishments, and rough answers/information to answer each of the questions. For now, you can write a summary of your accomplishments and projects to keep for a few years down the line – if you decide you want to use him as a recommender, you can call on this summary to refresh his memory as to what you’ve done (assuming you’ve kept in touch). Here’s a bit more on B school to keep in mind as the time gets closer.

Now that we’ve covered what exactly the application-less position is, let’s jump right into the best strategy for not only applying to the companies, but also how to find the shops and how to reach out to, ideally, the right bankers at the shop. This question comes up quite a lot from my readers, so I’m just going to jump in and tackle the issue at hand. No, it’s not just a matter of praying for the right opportunities, but if you follow these steps, you’ll be well on your way:

Where Are The Firms?

First, you need to actually find some boutiques/shops in your area, a big city you are close to, or where you are planning to be or can be over, for example, the summer (assuming you are looking for a summer internship). Once you know where you will be spending your summer (or other internship period), you need to perform a broad Google search to find boutiques and shops in the area that you’re interested in applying to and ideally interning with. To be blunt, this will be the vast majority of shops that you find through your search in your area since, at the end of the day, your best bet, as is often the case, is to cast a wide net. Beyond a Google search, you can search popular IB forums and ask friends, your school career center, etc.

Who Do I Reach Out To?

Now that you’ve built up a sizeable list of boutiques to contact, you need to spend some time on each of their websites and find out a few things. First, you need to know what the boutique focuses on – what industry, types of transactions, size and so forth – not necessarily to be used on this step, but during later steps you’ll definitely want to know about the company you are claiming to have an interest in. Beyond the basics, search through each of the websites for any career sections, employment sections, internship postings, etc. If you happen to find any positions, take the opportunity to submit an application that way – if not, it’s time to move on. Keep in mind that even if you find an opportunity this way, you can still pursue the following steps as a means of further getting your name in front of some of the bankers of the company – showing enthusiasm is a good thing as long as you don’t take it too far thus becoming a nuisance.

Since the article is about the application-less application, I’ll assume most of you have sailed right past the closing point from the previous paragraph and are ready to apply despite the lack of an online application or website career section. Assuming the opportunity is not posted online, you should look for the company directory or “team” profiles link on their website, which usually, at the least, shows names and often contact info for VP bankers and up – which is what you need when you are considering submitting a letter of inquiry to the firm.

Now that you’ve found the list of bankers at the firm, and, ideally, some contact info (or at least a contact standard for the firm so you can deduce the email address for a particular banker) for the bankers, you need to go through each of the bankers’ bios provided by the firm to learn of any common ground you might have with them. For example, did you attend or do you attend the same undergrad he/she attended, have you interned in a field they previously explored, have you interned or do you have an interest in the same industry they focus on, if there are any hobbies listed, do you have any common hobbies, are you both from the same hometown or have dwelled in a similar (and unique) place (meaning, if you both lived in NY, who cares, but if you both come from a small town in Tennessee, for example, that is a common point). Essentially, you should be looking for anything that is a mutual talking point to establish some sort of a connection in that initial email with the banker – something to hopefully get him at least marginally intrigued and interested in sending a reply to you.

Now that you’ve searched through the database, there are two scenarios: (1) you found at least 1 person that you have something in common with, or (2) no luck finding the “link” person. If you can find someone who has something in common with you, that person should be your first contact person. If there happens to be more than 1 person, then the most recent common point is the best to touch on – for example, if you both have the same alma mater and you are currently a junior, then that is a better common point than a common employer 2 years ago for you and 10 years ago for him/her. If, on the other hand, you find yourself a victim of scenario (2) and can’t find anyone with anything in common with you based on the bios (which is often the case), then, in a matter of speaking, you will have to pick out the friendliest looking face, haha (which I’ve also done) – essentially aim for someone in a junior-senior role, meaning a VP or early D, and, if possible, someone that has grown in banking (meaning rose from associate up the ranks), as they might be a bit more receptive as they too would have been in the recruiting scenario at that point. In either case, whether you have a person to reach out to with some common points or not, you will want to reach out to the person of your choosing through an inquiry email (a letter of inquiry in the body of an email) and attach your resume. Yes, in this case, you should attach your resume.

I Really Include My Resume? What About The Inquiry Letter?

Here’s the thing; although I don’t usually recommend attaching your resume to the first email for numerous reasons, in this case there is no disguising your intentions. Simply put, you want an internship with his/her firm and need to not only put your best foot forward through a strong letter of inquiry, but also deliver a complete representation of yourself through a neatly pressed resume. Without attaching your resume to the email, you are only sharing a small snippet of your candidacy with your potential employer and hoping he/she is interested enough to ask for more instead of including your resume and giving your potential employer a more thorough, if not complete, picture of your candidacy. In the case of cold-emailing and applying to these types of positions, you have less than a first impression, you have nothing more than a faceless first virtual-impression, which absolutely requires putting your best foot forward.

Moving into the core of the application-less application, the inquiry email, you will want to treat it just as you would a well-crafted cover letter for an advertised opportunity you are interested in, but instead of applying for a specific position, you are targeting the letter to the broader goal of working for the firm. Essentially, just as you would in a cover letter, you will highlight your interest in the firm and why you are interested in it (attributes based on your quick research on the website), your professional and/or academic highlights, any extras you’d like to include and, finally, a reaffirmation of your interest in working with the firm, a thanks and expressing an interest in speaking to discuss potential opportunities (internship, analyst, IB, etc).

What If The Banker Doesn’t Respond?

Now as fantastic as your letter of inquiry highlights your skills and sells your candidacy, you are obviously not always going to receive a response (positive or negative since whether good or bad, a response lets you know which direction to take next). If, or rather, when, you don’t get a response from the first person you reach out to at firm X, you shouldn’t give up just yet. After several days (preferably a week to 2 weeks), you can try reaching out to 1 more person at the firm. If the boutique is a bit larger, you should send the letter to someone in a different group; if it is a tiny shop, then just take a chance and email someone else on the team, but especially in the case of the small shop, you need to be sure to mention to the second person that you had already reached out to person X (the first person you reached out to) without success, but you understand how busy schedules can become.

The application-less application is absolutely the toughest application path to tackle with success, but it can absolutely be done. Send me an email if you have any other questions. If you need assistance on cold calls, networking calls, and so forth, be sure to consider an interview and networking prep session. As always, leave comments below.

There is no need to beat around the bush or try to be coy. Simply put, you want to work at Firm B, so tell Firm B that Firm A has made you an offer that is exploding by X (give yourself an extra 1-3 days at least just for a cushion) and although it is a great opportunity you feel the fit and experience will be much better at their firm, firm B. Then let them know that you appreciate their consideration and want to know if there is anything else they need ahead of making a final decision on your candidacy. Something along those lines (give or take a sentence or 2) should suffice and get you a response.

Remember, just as with everything, being tactful is very important – don’t pressure them, just let them know of your situation and they will either be unable to accommodate, or provide you with a decision – either way, you can move on and make a decision.

I had a really short and kind of disconcerting phone call with a banker that I was referred to. On the follow-up email, I made a few typos – did the typo screw my chances?

It’s not an interview, just a networking conversation – a few typos won’t kill you by any means. However, if the conversation was really bad (and not just short because the banker was busy or suddenly got another call, etc), then that would be worse than making a few typos.

Forget about the typos. If the banker responds positively, you are in good shape and keep it going. If he doesn’t respond, try to work on being more comfortable over the phone or having more questions/dialogue in the hole (if either of those were your problem) and move on. If you need help with cold calling or networking over the phone, you can consider my Prep Service as well.

Which looks better to recruiters – Finance Major or Finance and Accounting Concentrations (which require a few less courses than a typical major)?

If the question is resume-related, then state your degree on the title line, and under “Major: XXX” it would look better to write “Concentration: Finance and Accounting” rather than “Major: Finance.”

That said, the difference is very marginal and your Relevant Coursework matters more than what your concentration is – the slight exception to this is regarding complete non-target business schools. In that case, you want to showcase your finance and accounting degrees and coursework as much as possible in your education.

In short, whichever is easiest for you to obtain and maintain the highest GPA is the option you should go with. From there, relevant coursework will cover any questions on the material you know and having a finance major or finance and accounting concentrations will send the same message – “business student who should know his technical crap.”

How do associates and analysts decide who orders dinner, goes to pick it up, etc. Is there a hierarchy, does the hated analyst go, is there something implied by the decision?

First, there are far more important issues to worry about than who makes a phone call or visits a website to order dinner. That said, here goes: someone either orders everything online or makes a quick phone call. Order is placed. Food arrives in lobby. Random analyst, usually the one who had a minute and placed the order runs down and brings it back up. Food is charged to a card, admin is told next day who the charges covered – done.

When people actually go out, it could be a bunch of guys getting their own stuff, or a few analysts running out to pick some things up and head back – again, not a big deal. It’s not a community hanging session; just get a few guys who have a few minutes, run out, grab food, and you’re back.

If a company specifically requests a resume, cover letter AND transcript, what would happen if I do not include a transcript?

If you were specifically told to include your transcript, they will either be nice and send an email to ask for it, or not be as nice (and rightly so since they made the request clear) and just pass on your resume.

That said, they could overlook the lack of transcript and give you an interview major anyway. If you happen to get the interview and go all the way to the end, before getting an offer, they will want your transcript. If there is anything on there that would keep you from a position, you will not getting one whether you submit now or wait all the way until the end. If it isn’t that big of a deal, then just send it now. The big things they are looking for are GPA, relevant coursework and, if your graduated or are about to graduate, truth on your resume in terms of dates and courses – nothing really to sweat over.

Does it help to have a Series 7 and 66 license ahead of FT recruiting? I have them and want to know if I should put it on my resume, or if it could hurt me.

It doesn’t hurt to have it, but it won’t help much either. Analysts in IB at least, and any S&T I know, don’t require you to have it and, if down the line (months, year+), you need it, they will just sponsor you to take it. Since at some point, you will need to have it, it won’t hurt you (especially if the bank was planning to sponsor you sooner rather than later), but it won’t help you much either. Put it on your resume, but don’t expect anyone to jump out of their seats and demand to see you because you have it. Oh, and no, it won’t hurt you at all either – this isn’t “Boiler Room” (great move, by the way).

A very common question asked about the MSF is its relation to the MBA. The MSF is much more quantitative than an MBA and its focus is narrower. Therefore, you see a much more focused career track whereas with an MBA you can do almost anything you want. Also, MSF programs are typically comprised of 22-24 year olds with little to no work experience which is the primary reason why they place into analyst positions instead of coming in as an associate.

The CFA is regularly compared to an MSF and while there are elements of the CFA in most MSF programs, comparing them is a disservice on both sides. The CFA is a very well-respected designation. It also takes a long time to pass the tests and accumulate the required work experience. As mentioned earlier, the MSF takes only one year to complete. CFA’s are very useful in asset management, but it does not cover many topics useful in trading or banking. The MSF tries to prepare students for a more broad range of careers. Ultimately, both are great letters to have after your name and many people choose to earn both.

Although the degree is still relatively new here in the USA (most programs have been around for 5 years or less), it is starting to catch on. Princeton & MIT both offer MSF degrees and provide the best brand recognition out of the group. A few of the other more well known schools are Vanderbilt, Villanova, Boston College, WUSTL, Florida and Claremont McKenna. More and more schools are starting to offer an MSF (Ohio State being one of the newest) and in the future you will see the degree become much more common and well known.

For more information on an MSF, check out http://www.MSFHQ.com. The site is run by Anthony DeAngelis, a 2010 Villanova MSF graduate.

How to Respond in an Interview

In an interview, I recommend sticking with what is normally expected of this question. You should highlight the skill set gained, the exposure to the markets, senior bankers and companies, and extensive deal/project experience both in terms of live deals and potential opportunities (since not every group will close 20 deals while you are serving your 2-3 years).

Depending on your background, you could touch on the fast-paced nature of banking (NOT compared to trading, but compared to, say, accounting or engineering – although banking often isn’t terribly “fast-paced”) or the ability to work on large transactions/advisory opportunities that impact companies and industries. Additionally, try to avoid answers that sound contrived or hokey such as “it has been my lifelong goal to break into banking,” or “I love working 90 hours per week” – even if you it is or if you do, don’t say it – keep that as your little secret.

One other issue I want to bring up is whether it is a good idea to answer this question by stating that it will allow you to break into private equity, your long-term goal. The answer is: usually not. I say this not because it is a bad goal, or an inaccurate statement, but rather, because you are telling the interviewer that as soon as possible, you will jump ship and pursue private equity – you see banking purely as a stepping stone, not an opportunity. Therefore, while I don’t recommend answering the question in this way, you can absolutely use a blend of the typical answers and a simpler version of this response. For example: instead of pointing purely to P/E, state how you will gain a wealth of opportunities and a tremendous skill set and valuable transaction experience, which will help you in the future whether you remain in banking, go back to school, pursue P/E or something else entirely. This point is mostly aimed at those people pursuing analyst-level opportunities. Those MBAs, for example, who are pursuing associate-level opportunities, should not be pointing to other avenues of interest – in short, associates should have a stated goal of moving up the ranks and making banking their career(whether they really do or not).

Why Bankers Really Become…Bankers – Some “Actual” Reasons

This really depends on who you are and your future interests. Right off the bat, people often pursue banking not necessarily for anything tangible, but rather because of what they hear about banking – not the horror stories, but, you know, the other stuff. While much of what people hear is true, let’s take a closer look at what is being said and its merit.

One of the first things that pops into people’s heads when they hear IB is money – good base salary and fantastic bonuses. While the base salary is certainly strong, the bonuses aren’t always fantastic as most people in the business a few years ago would tell you (and even now, although bonuses have started coming back – especially for stronger shops). Additionally, keep in mind that many smaller shops, especially boutiques, don’t have outstanding bonuses, or sometimes even the same starting salaries as BBs – that said, those boutiques often don’t work the same hours as bigger shops either, which brings me to my other point: hours. While analysts can certainly make big dollars, they can also end up working enough hours to cover 2 full-time jobs (and not just the 35-hour per week jobs, I mean a standard 55-hour or so work week job at times). No, you won’t always be working 100+ hours per week, but there will be some weeks like that and many for some groups.

Next on the list is prestige. If enough people in your class and friends tell you that banking is awesome – “models and bottles baby” – and that the money flows, doors open, etc, it starts to sound appealing and interesting. While I agree that banking is a good profession if the work is of interest to you, you are not going to suddenly be a high-roller or a big “playa” just because you are a 1st year analyst with BB X.

Beyond the money and presumed prestige, there are definitely other reasons to pursue IB – most important of all is the career opportunities. Banking definitely offers outstanding opportunities to those interested in finance whether in terms of breaking into P/E, VC or staying in banking and moving to a smaller shop to gain a better work/life balance. IB offers the skill set, transaction experience and, “prestige” to break into these competitive fields often without business school. If breaking into these fields is a next step or goal for you, then banking, especially if you are placed in one of the right groups, will definitely help you along your path.

Finally, at the end of the day, all else aside, there are many people who honestly enjoy investment banking – the transactions, stress, experience, modeling, client interaction, and corporate environment. Although many people ask whether anyone actually enjoys banking, surprising or not, many people do enjoy it and break into the business intending to move up the ranks. Banking can be a high-energy environment with deals moving and business happening – as an analyst, you might not be making the decisions, but you are certainly playing a valuable role in the process (whether exhausting or not) and, if you are a strong analyst, can begin picking up more responsibilities, then a promotion and so forth.

Stay tuned for a fresh product coming very soon and much more!

It depends on a few things.

First, are you talking about a Master’s or an MBA (I’m ignoring law school, etc, since I am assuming you are considering something business and not law, teaching, etc). If you are talking about a finishing degree such as a Master’s then it is fine to pursue that right out of undergrad as both a means of further strengthening your knowledge in a particular field, and buying yourself an extra year of profession decision time. If, however, you are talking about an MBA, 1) you are not going to get into a top program straight out of undergrad (there are very few extraordinary exceptions to this) and 2) you will gain much more from an MBA with some solid, real world work experience as well as a plan/goals post MBA.

Next, it depends on what options you have upon graduation. If you can land yourself some interesting positions (whether in IB or something else), since many post U Grad positions are for 2-3 years and then they can be promoted or move on to something else (different career, employer, school, etc), you should strongly consider taking a chance and seeing if that position or at least field is right for you. Remember, a 2-year analyst program does not mean you have to stay put for 2 years. Often the best way to find out what you want to do and, just as importantly, what you don’t want to do, is by actually picking up the job and doing it.

If, however, you find yourself without some interesting/solid professional avenues next year, then pursuing a 1-year or so Master’s program might be a good way to both strengthen your candidacy and give you time to figure out a few more of your interests, without eliminating the MBA option later in case you ever decide to pursue it.

There are definitely other factors such as money, time, personal issues, etc, but in terms of broad opinions, this is a good start to give you at least some sort of thinking points. Again, in my opinion, if you’ve got a decent opportunity next year, I would take a chance and see if it’s for you – jump right in and see what works and what doesn’t – in other words, don’t put off entering the work world until that 1 magical opportunity comes, where the heavens open and the planets align – it might never come or you might pass that one up to even if it does.

I’m an undergrad student attending my first networking session – should I wear a suit with a tie? What should I talk about –should I be myself? Should I bring my business cards I am printing out?

Here is a quick summary:

Suit, yes – with tie; dress as if you were attending an interview – remember, in this business you are always being judged or at the very least could potentially find yourself being judged.

Business cards, no – leave them at home, don’t bring them, they’re not necessary. You should take THEIR business card and follow-up with them, but don’t bring your own. Additionally, don’t be lazy, follow up with them via email and use the email to remind them who you are, where you met and to ask a question, etc – essentially trying to build a bit of a relationship (see Here for more on networking).

Talking points – as you said, be yourself, but don’t get too personal, don’t be inappropriate, don’t chew anyone’s ear off, don’t get too casual and start rambling about your favorite song or bar, and try to listen AT LEAST as much as you speak. Try to learn to gauge the conversations; in other words, if the person talks about sports, keep up and chime in. If the person asks about your interests, fire away. But remember, there are a lot of people at the session or fair and save some stuff for that follow-up email. It’s better to move on too soon instead of waiting for an awkward pause/silence, other people to come rushing in, or rambling. Ask for the business card if you connect with anyone and follow up.

From what I can tell from students, etc, investment banking seems like it’s full of self-centered mean people who think they are above others. Are all IB firms like this or is it better at boutiques?

Haha, well put as far as stereotypes are concerned. While there are certainly many self-centered, arrogant people, with superiority complexes in banking, there are those same types of people in trading, consulting, P/E, HF, etc. That said, there are also decent and interesting people in IB who don’t feel they are vastly superior to everyone around them simply because they work in IB. As with everything in life, there will be some negatives and some bad apples that get the bulk of the attention (yes, there is a fair share in IB) and lead to the stereotypes. Just because you work there, you do not necessarily have to be arrogant, and you do not have to embrace arrogant people – you will probably be exposed to some arrogant people as well as humble people, along with a healthy mix between.

Regarding boutique vs. BB, the same applies – arrogant/humble, good/bad, obnoxious/fun, etc. With boutiques, since there are less people, there are often less avenues in terms of socializing outside of work (if you were interested in that). In either case, you want to make sure there is a good fit between the group and you during your interviews, after you’ve been given an offer by emailing/grabbing lunch, etc. While you are being judged by the interviewer, you should also be judging the interviewer as it pertains to fit. You will be spending a lot of time with these people and you should both want to make sure the fit is right.

Here’s my scenario: I am thinking about the 2 years in banking and then 2 years in P/E. Is it common for P/E associates to go to b-school before advancing? While I know an MBA is not explicitly needed to progress in the P/E industry, does it make it a lot less difficult to go through the b-school route? For those that are able to progress without going to b-school, is there anything special about those candidates?

To your question on whether you need to or should go to B school after the 2 and 2, it really depends on your particular scenario. Let me provide you with a few examples to illustrate some different scenarios.

1. Say you are working in a solid BB in a P/E-friendly field – specifically M&A, Leveraged Finance and then, to a slightly lesser degree, Financial Sponsors. In this case and with some hard work, you should be able to break into P/E after 1-2 years in IB. Keep in mind, however, that P/E shops range from small funds, to mid size and then up the chain to the multi-billion dollar mega funds. Now if you just want to work in P/E and don’t particularly need to work for a mega fund – in other words you’d be happy at a mega fund, but would also be happy in a smaller fund with a good environment/culture, then you shouldn’t have to attend B school to advance in P/E. Once you break in as an associate, you should be able to move up the chain from there. If something happens down the line, you can move to another shop or consider B school at that point.

2. Taking the same scenario as #1, but this time you are really aspiring towards ultimately ending up in a mega fund, while in this case you can still end up in P/E post IB, you will have a MUCH tougher time breaking into a top megafund (unless of course you are working in, for example, MS M&A and have made some connections). Now in this case, you should strongly consider B school since although it is not by any means a guarantee into P/E mega fund, attending a top B school (top 5-10, if not better, with good P/E representation) will definitely provide you with a network and employment opportunities with the mega funds. Additionally, since you will have both prior IB AND P/E experience, you will have an even better chance post B school (with some heavy networking as well).

3. Next, let’s say you end up outside of the P/E feeder groups as mentioned in #1. If you end up in an industry group, or another product, or even at a bank that isn’t a big P/E feeder, you will definitely have a tougher time breaking into P/E. In this case, you might consider B school as a means of breaking into P/E. From there, you should not have a problem advancing although you will have to be flexible in terms of P/E employer (the mega funds are always ultra-competitive).

Additionally, keep in mind that P/E shops aren’t the biggest pickers of B school talent and their process is often far less structured and defined than that of IB and consulting. Therefore, to break into P/E only to leave for another shop or advancement will be a bit on the risky side (although attending a strong B school with prior P/E experience will make you a stronger candidate, you will still have to defend your interest in P/E, since you chose to leave P/E, take a break, only to return to P/E).

Finally, regarding those candidates that break into P/E without B school after 1-2 years in IB, there is no magic formula here. You don’t need to be on the absolute biggest deals (although it helps) and you don’t need to be the greatest analyst in the history of the BB (although it would certainly help). That said, it is incredibly valuable to be in one of the groups that I mentioned above – those groups are the core feeder groups for P/E and being an analyst in one of those groups with a few deals under your belt will definitely provide you with some P/E opportunities. For the better funds, it will definitely help to network and work for a better BB (obviously better P/E will want the best IB since they can, in all honesty, demand it) and even attend a better U Grad. Regarding promotion, once you are in P/E, it will depend much more on need and performance than anything else. Therefore, unless you want to make a big jump or just a fresh start, you might not have to or want to go to B school.

I’m currently in a high school/associates degree program and will be attending a non-target, but solid school this fall. I am wondering if it is possible to break into banking with just my associate degree. If not, how can I position myself to get into IB (BB or possibly MM/boutique) with my U Grad? Finally, if I can’t get into IB out of U Grad, how easy will it be to get into IB from a top B school?

Let me tackle your questions 1 at a time. First, you can forget about breaking into IB without a Bachelors degree – the Associates degree is not going to do it, so move right on to breaking in from U Grad. Moving on to your U grad, while you’ve got a chance at breaking into a BB from the non-target (see Here), you will definitely have much more opportunity with regional boutiques and MM shops. That said, it is possible to get into BB shops, it will just require a lot more work, networking and some luck – you should definitely try though and landing some IB-related internships with smaller shops ahead of your junior SA (or at least FT) recruiting will definitely help.

Finally, regarding your MBA ideas, attending a top MBA will definitely be your best shot at breaking into BB IB – but let’s not make the mistake of assuming you will be able to get in straight out of U Grad, or even after 2 years of any-old work experience. It is very, very difficult to break into these top (not just top 5 or 10, but even top 15) schools and it is by no means a given after 2-3 years of experience. Therefore, while this is definitely your best bet, getting to that stage is anything but a definite at this point and will require some serious work on your part (check out my 2-part series on getting into B school Here and Here).

For now, focus on getting into U grad and doing very well. From there, you can position yourself for IB (whether BB or not) and then you can decide if an MBA is right for you, and, if it is, you can make the big push.

I plan on applying for summer internships in IB and am wondering what steps I should take to prepare myself for landing a good summer internship ahead of senior year. How much knowledge should I have about finance and accounting before going into interviews?

In terms of what you need to know for an interview (check This and This out for help with your upcoming interviews), this all depends on your major – if you are a finance/accounting major (or at least have some solid relevant coursework on your resume), you should definitely be comfortable with valuation, financial statements, etc. If, however, you are a non-business major (without this type of relevant coursework), you should be focused on more of the fit questions, but still have at least a basic understand of the financial statements – just so that you aren’t stumped by the most basic “walk me through the 3 financial statements” type of questions.

Next, in terms of next steps, you want to reach out to your alumni database and start networking as much as you can – of course, the better the school you attend – non vs. semi vs. target – the more alumni connections you will be able to make and utilize. Beyond that, you want to make sure you’ve got a solid resume and cover letter to showcase your skills.

Beyond that, while IB is your ultimate goal, don’t become entirely fixated on BB IB for SA opportunities – don’t forget about MM and boutique shops or even other relevant fields such as S&T, consulting, boutique P/E, etc. Keep your options open and, of course, cast a wide net in terms of applications and networking.

I’ve been networking a lot lately, and a few contacts have asked me for my resume. I just got a job that I started in late may (non-finance) – is it worth it to include this in my resume? Also, at what point should a job description be included in your resume (1 month, 6, etc)?

Once you start a position you can include it on your resume, and as you perform valuable (relevant to IB) tasks, definitely include them on your resume.

More specifically, to your first question, it really depends on the type of internship to which you are referring. Although it is not finance related, it can still be relevant – consulting, ops, accounting, etc can all be tweaked to appear very relevant to the skill sets necessary in IB (analytical, quant, attention to detail, leadership, writing, team work, etc). If, however, you are working in a fast-food shop, or as a bar tender, for example, that is not terribly relevant, and doesn’t need to be included in your resume (instead just use it as a means of earning some extra income as you search for a more relevant internship/position). Essentially you want to showcase as much relevant experience as you can, but relevant is the key word – you don’t want to give a mixed message as to what you want to do. An exception to this rule would be if you are entering your senior year and don’t have any work experience listed at all – in this case, it is better to list something, even if it is not completely relevant, but at least business related, on your resume (I would still leave off the fast-food cashier position though – for the record).

I understand GS TMT/MS M&A are widely regarded as the top of totem pole when it comes to PE recruiting, but how about other groups at GS/MS? Essentially, if given the opportunity to work at a top boutique, which other groups at GS/MS would be comparable or better for recruiting? Should I base it all of group or worry about fit?

First, just because M&A is a top feeder and GS TMT is a top group, it does not mean that the other groups are inferior. When it comes to P/E recruiting you need to figure out 2 things – 1) do you prefer M&A/Leveraged Finance or an Industry and 2) if an industry, then which industry? While M&A and Lev Fin are highly sought after, if you have a particular industry focus and end up in that particular industry at a bank like MS or GS, then you will definitely be in good shape for P/E recruiting since you’ll have industry expertise and will have some M&A exposure in that industry (especially if your group happens to do some of its modeling as many groups do) as well as working for a top bank.

Next, there is nothing stopping you from pursuing numerous employers and picking the best option. Essentially, if you get an offer with Blackstone, for example, and get another offer with MS and find out that MS M&A is only hiring 1 analyst, then Blackstone might be a better fit. If, however, you are networking with some of the MS bankers in M&A, your chances are much better. Additionally, when ranking your groups, you can rank M&A as #1, then lev fin, then Sponsors, then an industry or 2 of choice – you should get one of those options if not one of your top 2 or 3 (even without a bunch of networking, although networking does help).

Remember, while boutiques are great, their reach outside of the IB/PE space are not as strong as top BBs such as GS and MS. A strong BB on your resume in your industry of choice, for example, can open many doors in terms of future IB, P/E, corporate finance/development and so forth down the line, while some of the most prestigious boutiques aren’t known that much outside of the IB or P/E worlds (although this isn’t necessarily a bad thing if those are the worlds you are targeting).

At the end of the day, I would push for M&A, Lev Fin, Sponsors and an industry group of choice. Beyond that, I would really focus on fit and culture – you will be spending a lot of time there and the happier bankers or at least the less angry/disgusted bankers get the better projects, reviews and recommendations (usually).