First, let’s get into the “What” of your bullet points, as in what types of information, projects, etc you should include in your resume. Contrary to popular belief, when it comes to information in a resume, more is certainly not always better. A clean resume with a decent amount of white space doesn’t necessarily mean that you lack experience, but rather, that you have created a reader-friendly resume recruiters will want to scan. Whether you lack experience will be determined from the information in your bullet points, not how much space you can take up on the page. Now that we’ve got that out of the way, let’s focus on what should be included.

In short, you first want to do a bit of homework, if not on the company, then at least on the field/position in question. If, for example, you are pursuing an IB analyst position, check out some job descriptions and see what they’re customary responsibilities and projects will entail and the skill sets required. Next, take an honest look at each of your experiences and ask yourself what you’ve done there that would be relevant, applicable, helpful and/or useful to the position. From there, you will have the basis for what you should include in your bullet points, listing the most relevant and/or impressive first, since many recruiters will only look at a bullet point or two per experience, so you want to lead off with your best foot to inspire the person to read on.

So this highlights what should be included in your resume in general, but let’s take a few minutes to cover what should be included in your resume specifically for targeting IB (and similarly for consulting, S&T and buyside, though there may be some tweaking). First and foremost, any types of projects that involved valuation, financial modeling, or analyzing company financials should be included in your resume. While it is very easy to say that without IB-type of experience you won’t have any of this sort of experience, that isn’t the case. In fact, operations and control, middle office, all of the above positions and even things like PWM can involve projects that are comparable to these types of projects. For example, while in F500 operations you might not be valuing companies for acquisition opportunities, you can very well be using excel to forecast budgets, check internal financials, etc, which can all be included on your resume as relevant experience.

Next on your list you can look towards projects that involve research, particularly on specific industries and companies so that you can point to detailed evaluation and a strong knowledge base for the field – this will be particularly useful if, for example, you are researching technology and applying for a position in the technology space or technology IB or just interested in working in some capacity within the field going forward. Although not as important on the surface as the first and second points, this next point is still relevant and worthwhile to include: documentation work. Having a strong written proficiency is both a welcome and essential quality of a successful analyst, associate, and up the chain. Therefore, work that you have done involving drafting information books, presentations, distribution materials, primers, etc, are all welcome additions to your resume – provided of course, it doesn’t consume the entire resume at the expense of the other points listed here. Finally, and although listed last is definitely not least important, are projects for which you took on more of a leadership/managerial role or even a proactive role going beyond what was asked of you. This is a vague category and for good reason as it can be combined with any of the above points or, depending on the experience, can involve something else entirely demonstrating leadership.

So now that we’ve ran through what should be included in your bullet points, let’s go through the construction (or components) of a bullet point regardless of category. I like to break each bullet point into up to three components (I say up to three since you might not always have been responsible for or need to include all three): 1) what you did (which is explained above), 2) how and for what purpose you did what you did, and 3) the result or impact on the group as a result of the work you performed or project you worked on.

We’ve already covered the “what,” so now let’s jump into the “how” and “purpose.” It’s very easy to form a bullet point as follows:”Built a DCF model and performed comparable transaction analysis.” Unfortunately, this doesn’t do anything more than tell me at the very least you worked on a DCF model and spread some comps for fun or as part of a test assignment – maybe, if you’re lucky, it was for a deal that didn’t go anywhere. Now if that is the case, then it is fine to leave the bullet as is. However, if you performed this task for multiple projects (mandated or closed, for example) in a specific industry, that adds another level of importance to the bullet point and gives me a much better understanding of what you did, learned and can contribute to your next team. A new bullet point, yet still simple, can look more like this: “Built DCF and comparable company models for several pending transactions in the oil and gas space.” As another example, if you performed some research for an information memo you put together for a deal, instead of simple stating that you research the oil and gas industry for deal X, you can also include your utilization of Bloomberg, Cap IQ, etc to highlight how you fulfilled your project, while at the same time showcasing your proficiencies.

Finally, we come to what is possibly the most frequently forgotten aspect when constructing a bullet point – the result and/or impact. Now there is a good reason why this aspect is often not included: simply put, it is not available, meaning there is either no readily quantifiable result or the result doesn’t enhance the experience (for example, the result was just another data point used in a sample). Going back to the DCF bullet point of the previous paragraph – “Built DCF and comparable company models for several pending transactions in the oil and gas space” – we see a bullet point that is strong and perhaps strong enough (but this depends on the actual result). If, for example, the tasks you performed for one or more of these deals led to the decision to increase the purchase price range by 15%, that definitely adds a significant amount of credit to the point and, if included, to the bullet point. The new bullet point can look like this (on a simplistic level): “Built DCF and comparable company models for several pending transactions in the oil and gas space, which resulted in a 10-15% increase in purchase price range for two late-stage deals.” While this is a simple exam, it is merely meant to show the importance of including each of these three attributes (when applicable) in your bullet points. Before closing this article, I just want to touch on a few quick points that are often overlooked by people when constructing their resumes.

A few final points to keep in mind when constructing your bullets are: 1)contrary to popular believe, bullets do not need to be full sentences – as in they are quick points, not complete sentences and although they need to of course make sense, they do not need to start with a proper noun, include all necessary articles, etc, 2) along the same lines, each bullet points should lead off with a past tense verb, and 3) along the same lines again, bullet points do not end with a period, since that would imply a full sentence.

That’s it for now; keep an eye out for some fresh articles and a new product on its way that will certainly help you with your upcoming interview!

I don’t have a great answer for my “greatest accomplishment” as a college student. How should I answer this question in interviews?

Essentially, go with something, whether incredibly impressive or not, that challenged you and allowed you to learn a valuable lesson, grow as a person and/or build useful skills. At the end of the day interviewees get hung up on words like “Greatest, worst, biggest” and so forth, and they don’t need to. These are words used to make you sweat, to scare you and so forth. In reality, go with what you know, what you are comfortable with and what you can show growth from – the accomplishment needs to be important and impressive to you, it needs to matter to you, the interviewer will be impressed with what you got out of it and how hard it was for you to achieve, not the weight of the accomplishment itself.

Here’s some more help with your upcoming interviews:

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I have some questions on the interview process and what employers are looking for when asking certain questions: 1) how do I prepare for the “pitch me a stock” question, 2) what are they really looking for out of the behavioral interviews – do I need certain answers to impress them, and 3) how should I answer the greatest accomplishment or biggest challenge overcome question?

1. Do your research – find 2-3 stocks across 2-3 industries that you like and have an interest in. From there, do some general research on competition, the market, news, etc. From there, dig into the financials of the company a bit to pull out some ratios and stats relative to competitors. From there, form your opinions – you don’t need to go crazy, but I always recommend stocks in different industries so that you are prepared to pitch a stock outside of your interviewer’s industry.

2. It means you aren’t an asshole, you’re not a tool/obvious suck-up, and that you are decent to talk to. In short, the interviewer (and his/her team) can and wouldn’t mind dealing with you (working with you) at 11pm, when you’ve still got a few hours of work ahead of you.

My main interest is hedge funds and private equity, but from what I understand I have no shot at this straight from undergrad unless I go to wharton. Will other schools help me break into PE or HF and, if not, how do I go from IB to PE? Do I need to get an MBA and then get into PE or HF?

That’s not entirely true – any of the top schools give you a shot – WHYPS and a few others, but it is VERY tough. The best ways to break into PE and HF are either going to IB from u grad, then b school, then PE or HF, OR going from u grad to a solid BB IB position directly to PE or HF. You don’t have to go to B school to get into PE (PE especially) from IB, you can make the direct move – especially if you are targeting PE in general and not elite/top megafund PE. From any solid semi-target you will have access to many of the big banks and from an analyst position there you can break into PE.

On a side note, it’s definitely been a busy several weeks for a variety of reasons ultimately leaving me without much free time to compose articles or properly field questions. Although my schedule will definitely be fairly packed over the next several weeks, it has lightened a bit and I will definitely be returning to a more consistent level of posting and answering questions. And I know I’ve been saying it for a while now, but my new product is absolutely coming very soon and will make the technical side of your upcoming interviews much easier! That said – let’s jump right in!

Although the immediate move from IB to PE/HF/buyside in general results in better compensation initially, is it worth it in the long run? In other words, should one transition to buyside, or stay the course with banking, if possible, and attempt to move into an MD role at a BB, for example? Also, does moving to an MD role at a BB require an MBA degree? In my mind, this seems to be a much safer path than moving to a Hedge Fund, for example, which can go bust, and since differences at the MD level for pay between BB Investment Banks and Buy Side PE firms are little, is the move really worth it?

Ok – that was definitely a mouth/eye/ear full, but I’m going to break out some of the key points and address them accordingly:

1. The move from analyst to MD does NOT require an MBA by any means. However, the path is definitely a one to take and one that often involves layoffs, bank changes, being passed up for opportunities, and so forth. Moving from analyst to associate is one thing; moving from analyst to some sort of VP is another thing, but to go from analyst up to MD is absolutely no small task given the rate of turnover, movement between banks, cyclicality of the business, need for additional resources (meaning MDs aren’t just given – they are doled out based on need of a team or group) and so forth. Don’t get me wrong, it can certainly happen (as needed) and the moves from analyst to VP and D definitely happen, but it often comes with a bumpy and lengthy road. Remember, just because an organization is large or established, it does not automatically follow that your career will be secure and that promotions are natural and easy steps. If there is a big turn in the market, as we’ve all just seen and are continuing to witness these past few years, hedge funds, PE shops, small banks, BB banks and the like were all taking butcher’s knives to their staffs.

2. Even though the progression can happen, it isn’t one of those things where everyone wants to do it and just doesn’t get picked. Most people use IB as not necessarily a stepping stone, but definitely a means of reaching an end, not an end in itself. Post analyst and associate roles are in PE, HF, VC, buyside, boutiques, F500 and so forth and are often far more lucrative for much bigger reasons than dollars. Many people just don’t want to deal with the hours, the stress, the credit committees and internal politics (jumping through hoops to get deals approved and so forth, especially in a still jittery market like this) the NEED for new business, etc – since remember, IB is a sales position at the end of the day, and working for a BB bank means you need to constantly be selling and showing the bank that you are worth the bonus and worth a cube or office on the floor. Even senior bankers work long hours and although they aren’t at their desks for 12, 15+ hours, they are often on the road visiting clients, pitching, negotiating terms and so forth several days per week.

3. At the end of the day, it is really a personal call. If you like the sell-side (IB-side) of the business and many people do, then you will want to stick it out, or possibly pursue an MBA and then get back in to move to a stronger/more prestigious bank, new group, fresh start, etc. If, however, you aren’t passionate or as passionate about IB necessarily and just want to put in the time to gain the contacts and the experience and skill set/transaction knowledge and move on, then becoming a senior banker will definitely not be for you. In that case, you are much better off moving to buyside, in some form, and enjoy.

Now that we’ve covered what exactly the application-less position is, let’s jump right into the best strategy for not only applying to the companies, but also how to find the shops and how to reach out to, ideally, the right bankers at the shop. This question comes up quite a lot from my readers, so I’m just going to jump in and tackle the issue at hand. No, it’s not just a matter of praying for the right opportunities, but if you follow these steps, you’ll be well on your way:

Where Are The Firms?

First, you need to actually find some boutiques/shops in your area, a big city you are close to, or where you are planning to be or can be over, for example, the summer (assuming you are looking for a summer internship). Once you know where you will be spending your summer (or other internship period), you need to perform a broad Google search to find boutiques and shops in the area that you’re interested in applying to and ideally interning with. To be blunt, this will be the vast majority of shops that you find through your search in your area since, at the end of the day, your best bet, as is often the case, is to cast a wide net. Beyond a Google search, you can search popular IB forums and ask friends, your school career center, etc.

Who Do I Reach Out To?

Now that you’ve built up a sizeable list of boutiques to contact, you need to spend some time on each of their websites and find out a few things. First, you need to know what the boutique focuses on – what industry, types of transactions, size and so forth – not necessarily to be used on this step, but during later steps you’ll definitely want to know about the company you are claiming to have an interest in. Beyond the basics, search through each of the websites for any career sections, employment sections, internship postings, etc. If you happen to find any positions, take the opportunity to submit an application that way – if not, it’s time to move on. Keep in mind that even if you find an opportunity this way, you can still pursue the following steps as a means of further getting your name in front of some of the bankers of the company – showing enthusiasm is a good thing as long as you don’t take it too far thus becoming a nuisance.

Since the article is about the application-less application, I’ll assume most of you have sailed right past the closing point from the previous paragraph and are ready to apply despite the lack of an online application or website career section. Assuming the opportunity is not posted online, you should look for the company directory or “team” profiles link on their website, which usually, at the least, shows names and often contact info for VP bankers and up – which is what you need when you are considering submitting a letter of inquiry to the firm.

Now that you’ve found the list of bankers at the firm, and, ideally, some contact info (or at least a contact standard for the firm so you can deduce the email address for a particular banker) for the bankers, you need to go through each of the bankers’ bios provided by the firm to learn of any common ground you might have with them. For example, did you attend or do you attend the same undergrad he/she attended, have you interned in a field they previously explored, have you interned or do you have an interest in the same industry they focus on, if there are any hobbies listed, do you have any common hobbies, are you both from the same hometown or have dwelled in a similar (and unique) place (meaning, if you both lived in NY, who cares, but if you both come from a small town in Tennessee, for example, that is a common point). Essentially, you should be looking for anything that is a mutual talking point to establish some sort of a connection in that initial email with the banker – something to hopefully get him at least marginally intrigued and interested in sending a reply to you.

Now that you’ve searched through the database, there are two scenarios: (1) you found at least 1 person that you have something in common with, or (2) no luck finding the “link” person. If you can find someone who has something in common with you, that person should be your first contact person. If there happens to be more than 1 person, then the most recent common point is the best to touch on – for example, if you both have the same alma mater and you are currently a junior, then that is a better common point than a common employer 2 years ago for you and 10 years ago for him/her. If, on the other hand, you find yourself a victim of scenario (2) and can’t find anyone with anything in common with you based on the bios (which is often the case), then, in a matter of speaking, you will have to pick out the friendliest looking face, haha (which I’ve also done) – essentially aim for someone in a junior-senior role, meaning a VP or early D, and, if possible, someone that has grown in banking (meaning rose from associate up the ranks), as they might be a bit more receptive as they too would have been in the recruiting scenario at that point. In either case, whether you have a person to reach out to with some common points or not, you will want to reach out to the person of your choosing through an inquiry email (a letter of inquiry in the body of an email) and attach your resume. Yes, in this case, you should attach your resume.

I Really Include My Resume? What About The Inquiry Letter?

Here’s the thing; although I don’t usually recommend attaching your resume to the first email for numerous reasons, in this case there is no disguising your intentions. Simply put, you want an internship with his/her firm and need to not only put your best foot forward through a strong letter of inquiry, but also deliver a complete representation of yourself through a neatly pressed resume. Without attaching your resume to the email, you are only sharing a small snippet of your candidacy with your potential employer and hoping he/she is interested enough to ask for more instead of including your resume and giving your potential employer a more thorough, if not complete, picture of your candidacy. In the case of cold-emailing and applying to these types of positions, you have less than a first impression, you have nothing more than a faceless first virtual-impression, which absolutely requires putting your best foot forward.

Moving into the core of the application-less application, the inquiry email, you will want to treat it just as you would a well-crafted cover letter for an advertised opportunity you are interested in, but instead of applying for a specific position, you are targeting the letter to the broader goal of working for the firm. Essentially, just as you would in a cover letter, you will highlight your interest in the firm and why you are interested in it (attributes based on your quick research on the website), your professional and/or academic highlights, any extras you’d like to include and, finally, a reaffirmation of your interest in working with the firm, a thanks and expressing an interest in speaking to discuss potential opportunities (internship, analyst, IB, etc).

What If The Banker Doesn’t Respond?

Now as fantastic as your letter of inquiry highlights your skills and sells your candidacy, you are obviously not always going to receive a response (positive or negative since whether good or bad, a response lets you know which direction to take next). If, or rather, when, you don’t get a response from the first person you reach out to at firm X, you shouldn’t give up just yet. After several days (preferably a week to 2 weeks), you can try reaching out to 1 more person at the firm. If the boutique is a bit larger, you should send the letter to someone in a different group; if it is a tiny shop, then just take a chance and email someone else on the team, but especially in the case of the small shop, you need to be sure to mention to the second person that you had already reached out to person X (the first person you reached out to) without success, but you understand how busy schedules can become.

The application-less application is absolutely the toughest application path to tackle with success, but it can absolutely be done. Send me an email if you have any other questions. If you need assistance on cold calls, networking calls, and so forth, be sure to consider an interview and networking prep session. As always, leave comments below.

There is no need to beat around the bush or try to be coy. Simply put, you want to work at Firm B, so tell Firm B that Firm A has made you an offer that is exploding by X (give yourself an extra 1-3 days at least just for a cushion) and although it is a great opportunity you feel the fit and experience will be much better at their firm, firm B. Then let them know that you appreciate their consideration and want to know if there is anything else they need ahead of making a final decision on your candidacy. Something along those lines (give or take a sentence or 2) should suffice and get you a response.

Remember, just as with everything, being tactful is very important – don’t pressure them, just let them know of your situation and they will either be unable to accommodate, or provide you with a decision – either way, you can move on and make a decision.

I had a really short and kind of disconcerting phone call with a banker that I was referred to. On the follow-up email, I made a few typos – did the typo screw my chances?

It’s not an interview, just a networking conversation – a few typos won’t kill you by any means. However, if the conversation was really bad (and not just short because the banker was busy or suddenly got another call, etc), then that would be worse than making a few typos.

Forget about the typos. If the banker responds positively, you are in good shape and keep it going. If he doesn’t respond, try to work on being more comfortable over the phone or having more questions/dialogue in the hole (if either of those were your problem) and move on. If you need help with cold calling or networking over the phone, you can consider my Prep Service as well.

Which looks better to recruiters – Finance Major or Finance and Accounting Concentrations (which require a few less courses than a typical major)?

If the question is resume-related, then state your degree on the title line, and under “Major: XXX” it would look better to write “Concentration: Finance and Accounting” rather than “Major: Finance.”

That said, the difference is very marginal and your Relevant Coursework matters more than what your concentration is – the slight exception to this is regarding complete non-target business schools. In that case, you want to showcase your finance and accounting degrees and coursework as much as possible in your education.

In short, whichever is easiest for you to obtain and maintain the highest GPA is the option you should go with. From there, relevant coursework will cover any questions on the material you know and having a finance major or finance and accounting concentrations will send the same message – “business student who should know his technical crap.”

How do associates and analysts decide who orders dinner, goes to pick it up, etc. Is there a hierarchy, does the hated analyst go, is there something implied by the decision?

First, there are far more important issues to worry about than who makes a phone call or visits a website to order dinner. That said, here goes: someone either orders everything online or makes a quick phone call. Order is placed. Food arrives in lobby. Random analyst, usually the one who had a minute and placed the order runs down and brings it back up. Food is charged to a card, admin is told next day who the charges covered – done.

When people actually go out, it could be a bunch of guys getting their own stuff, or a few analysts running out to pick some things up and head back – again, not a big deal. It’s not a community hanging session; just get a few guys who have a few minutes, run out, grab food, and you’re back.

If a company specifically requests a resume, cover letter AND transcript, what would happen if I do not include a transcript?

If you were specifically told to include your transcript, they will either be nice and send an email to ask for it, or not be as nice (and rightly so since they made the request clear) and just pass on your resume.

That said, they could overlook the lack of transcript and give you an interview major anyway. If you happen to get the interview and go all the way to the end, before getting an offer, they will want your transcript. If there is anything on there that would keep you from a position, you will not getting one whether you submit now or wait all the way until the end. If it isn’t that big of a deal, then just send it now. The big things they are looking for are GPA, relevant coursework and, if your graduated or are about to graduate, truth on your resume in terms of dates and courses – nothing really to sweat over.

Does it help to have a Series 7 and 66 license ahead of FT recruiting? I have them and want to know if I should put it on my resume, or if it could hurt me.

It doesn’t hurt to have it, but it won’t help much either. Analysts in IB at least, and any S&T I know, don’t require you to have it and, if down the line (months, year+), you need it, they will just sponsor you to take it. Since at some point, you will need to have it, it won’t hurt you (especially if the bank was planning to sponsor you sooner rather than later), but it won’t help you much either. Put it on your resume, but don’t expect anyone to jump out of their seats and demand to see you because you have it. Oh, and no, it won’t hurt you at all either – this isn’t “Boiler Room” (great move, by the way).

First, in terms of “other details” that really depends on the details – if you are referring to number of employees, for example, you don’t need that on your resume – use your best judgment here.

Moving past that, in terms of industry and AUM, you can include those if you’d like to, but the only place you should list them in is in the brief description you give for the company below your position title, but above your bullet points for said position. If you don’t include a brief summary of the company (don’t want to, don’t have room, etc), then don’t bother including them since it really won’t make much of a difference one way or the other – your personal experiences matter much more than a few details on a small shop. Additionally, if the prospective employer cares, he/she will either look it up or simply ask you during the interview.

Should I apply to BB SA internships as a sophomore or is it a waste of time? Also, will it hurt me if I reapply next year as a junior?

While your time might be better of spent elsewhere – depending on how long it takes you to put together and submit an application, it definitely won’t hurt you to apply to BB SA internships as a sophomore, although you will obviously be a long shot. Additionally, as can be implied from not hurting you, it will not have an influence at all on your applications for SA positions during your junior year. In short, if you’ve got the time, go for it. I wouldn’t exhaust my contact list until junior and then senior years, but it definitely won’t hurt to apply – and if you get an offer, awesome. If not, no harm done.

I’m currently in the process of updating my resume to include this past summer’s experience. I interned at a BB and got a return offer, so should I put that I “received a return offer in the Investment Banking Division” as one of my bullet points?

This question has been asked quite often, but essentially there is nothing wrong with putting it in your resume, but there is also nothing great about it. It is perfectly understandable that you want to showcase your success and that you received an offer – as well as not wanting to leave it to chance that an interviewer just assumes that you didn’t get the return offer and draws his/her own conclusions.

However, if you are coming from a good shop, it doesn’t matter if you got the return offer or not, as long as the new group likes you – additionally, if the new group cares, they WILL just ask you and ask you about your experiences with the old group.

If you are coming from an unknown shop, then it won’t matter either way, as your experience – modeling, transaction and such will be the only things that matter – and again, if they care what happened with the old shop, they WILL ask.

Remember, by putting it on your resume you are inviting the interview follow-up questions of: what was your response (did you accept or reject), why are you interviewing elsewhere, what didn’t you like about the shop, and so forth.

Although it looks good to show that you are in demand, you don’t want to end up backing yourself into a corner – where you’ve accepted an offer and are now looking to renege or that you’ve got poor things to say about your past bosses.

If you’ve got the room on your resume and don’t mind fielding the questions, then go ahead and put it on there. If not, then leave it off and if your new employer wants to know, they will just ask. Additionally, once something is in writing it is there, to be proved or disproved, to help you or hurt you.

Either way, you landed a return offer – it’s a job well done and congrats – now focus on landing that FT offer.

As a SA, I worked in a group where offers were made on a group-specific basis, not for an incoming class. I didn’t end up getting the FT offer – am I screwed come FT recruiting or is there a way to explain it?

While it definitely helps to get the return offer, it doesn’t necessarily hurt you to not, especially since your group was only giving offers to certain groups and for that specific group (in other words, no mobility). In this case, you will want to focus on your experiences and essentially let interviewers know that when speaking with your group, it was understood that you weren’t interested in coming back FT and since the offer was group-specific, it made sense to not extend an offer to you and instead give an offer to someone interested in coming back to the group. Then be ready to explain why you didn’t want to work in the group FT and what you’re looking for out of a FT employer (and a FT industry – ideally the new employer will be in a different industry as well).

This should help you to alleviate your lack of an offer, while still highlighting your candidacy. Additionally, this point of an offer or no offer should only come up during an interview – in other words, there should be no mention of this in your cover letter or resume – why give non-positive news without being in person where you’d have the opportunity to defend and explain it.

I’ve taken definitely a bit of a break over the past month or so to catch up on things outside of my site. That said, I am back, beginning to ramp up again and will certainly be firing out everything that all of you have come to expect of me. Leave your comments below and send me some emails – let me know what you want to see, what you need to see and what’s missing!

How to Respond in an Interview

In an interview, I recommend sticking with what is normally expected of this question. You should highlight the skill set gained, the exposure to the markets, senior bankers and companies, and extensive deal/project experience both in terms of live deals and potential opportunities (since not every group will close 20 deals while you are serving your 2-3 years).

Depending on your background, you could touch on the fast-paced nature of banking (NOT compared to trading, but compared to, say, accounting or engineering – although banking often isn’t terribly “fast-paced”) or the ability to work on large transactions/advisory opportunities that impact companies and industries. Additionally, try to avoid answers that sound contrived or hokey such as “it has been my lifelong goal to break into banking,” or “I love working 90 hours per week” – even if you it is or if you do, don’t say it – keep that as your little secret.

One other issue I want to bring up is whether it is a good idea to answer this question by stating that it will allow you to break into private equity, your long-term goal. The answer is: usually not. I say this not because it is a bad goal, or an inaccurate statement, but rather, because you are telling the interviewer that as soon as possible, you will jump ship and pursue private equity – you see banking purely as a stepping stone, not an opportunity. Therefore, while I don’t recommend answering the question in this way, you can absolutely use a blend of the typical answers and a simpler version of this response. For example: instead of pointing purely to P/E, state how you will gain a wealth of opportunities and a tremendous skill set and valuable transaction experience, which will help you in the future whether you remain in banking, go back to school, pursue P/E or something else entirely. This point is mostly aimed at those people pursuing analyst-level opportunities. Those MBAs, for example, who are pursuing associate-level opportunities, should not be pointing to other avenues of interest – in short, associates should have a stated goal of moving up the ranks and making banking their career(whether they really do or not).

Why Bankers Really Become…Bankers – Some “Actual” Reasons

This really depends on who you are and your future interests. Right off the bat, people often pursue banking not necessarily for anything tangible, but rather because of what they hear about banking – not the horror stories, but, you know, the other stuff. While much of what people hear is true, let’s take a closer look at what is being said and its merit.

One of the first things that pops into people’s heads when they hear IB is money – good base salary and fantastic bonuses. While the base salary is certainly strong, the bonuses aren’t always fantastic as most people in the business a few years ago would tell you (and even now, although bonuses have started coming back – especially for stronger shops). Additionally, keep in mind that many smaller shops, especially boutiques, don’t have outstanding bonuses, or sometimes even the same starting salaries as BBs – that said, those boutiques often don’t work the same hours as bigger shops either, which brings me to my other point: hours. While analysts can certainly make big dollars, they can also end up working enough hours to cover 2 full-time jobs (and not just the 35-hour per week jobs, I mean a standard 55-hour or so work week job at times). No, you won’t always be working 100+ hours per week, but there will be some weeks like that and many for some groups.

Next on the list is prestige. If enough people in your class and friends tell you that banking is awesome – “models and bottles baby” – and that the money flows, doors open, etc, it starts to sound appealing and interesting. While I agree that banking is a good profession if the work is of interest to you, you are not going to suddenly be a high-roller or a big “playa” just because you are a 1st year analyst with BB X.

Beyond the money and presumed prestige, there are definitely other reasons to pursue IB – most important of all is the career opportunities. Banking definitely offers outstanding opportunities to those interested in finance whether in terms of breaking into P/E, VC or staying in banking and moving to a smaller shop to gain a better work/life balance. IB offers the skill set, transaction experience and, “prestige” to break into these competitive fields often without business school. If breaking into these fields is a next step or goal for you, then banking, especially if you are placed in one of the right groups, will definitely help you along your path.

Finally, at the end of the day, all else aside, there are many people who honestly enjoy investment banking – the transactions, stress, experience, modeling, client interaction, and corporate environment. Although many people ask whether anyone actually enjoys banking, surprising or not, many people do enjoy it and break into the business intending to move up the ranks. Banking can be a high-energy environment with deals moving and business happening – as an analyst, you might not be making the decisions, but you are certainly playing a valuable role in the process (whether exhausting or not) and, if you are a strong analyst, can begin picking up more responsibilities, then a promotion and so forth.

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Looking back on recruiting, what tips do you have for readers interested in pursuing a career in S&T?

S&T should probably be looked at as (1) S (sales) and (2) T (trading). For sales, it’s not so much hard technical knowledge that you need (just brush up a bit on whichever group/field you are interviewing with), as much as you really need sharp communication skills and be ready to sell yourself. For trading, on the other hand, mathematics and programming skills are going to be strong selling points. So majoring in one of those subjects (if not both), or taking elective courses in these subjects will probably help you. It also seems like technical schools (MIT, Carnegie Mellon, etc.) are more likely to be target schools for the trading side, at least for those who have just received their undergraduate degrees. Besides the math and programming skills, it will also definitely help to know trading strategies, formulas and general technical and industry knowledge as well.

There are obviously different roles within the T of S&T, so for some, the technical knowledge will be most important, for others, it will be all about the programming, modeling and so forth, and still, for others, it will be a mix of the two with strong math skills. Generally speaking, regardless of the position, strong math skills will definitely help.

Now for either area (sales or trading), make sure you are paying attention to the market – both the broader economy/stock market and whatever particular market you are interviewing with (for example, for a commodities role, it would be beneficial to know not just about the broader markets, but also how the commodities market has been fairing and where some of the popular commodities are trading – gold, oil and even a few others. In addition to knowing where the markets are, you’ll want to know where they were and where you think they’re heading.

What group were you placed in with your BB and was this your group of choice?

I was placed into a derivatives marketing group. In the end, this was really an investment banking product group, neither pure sales nor pure trading.

I was not asked for input on where I would like to be placed – in other words, there was no “sell day” for me to meet with and rank the different groups. Honestly, I would have preferred to be placed on a trading desk, in other words, a “pure T” desk.

What did an average day look like for you as an analyst? How many hours did you usually spend on the desk per week?

I’d usually get in at around 7a.m. The first things on my list would be to check my e-mail and run through the relevant news/read updates from our traders. After I settle in a bit, assuming there are no fire drills, I’d sit down with my director, who worked on the floor just a few desks away from me, to go over with what needed to be done for the day. Since we sat right next to each other, in the same row, we didn’t need to have an “official” meeting in an office/conference room. During the day I’d be answering phones, pricing different strategies for potential transactions, working on presentations (usually as part of a bigger pitch put on by one or another banking industry group whose client is interested in, for example, hedging strategies), and if there were no presentations that needed to be finished immediately, I might run some kind of analysis.

I would also coordinate with our legal, credit, and documentations teams. If a client has any payment or documentation issues, I would usually take care of those. As a quick side note, always be nice to your internal resources – you should try to be nice to everyone anyway, but these are the people who can make your job a lot easier or a lot more difficult.

Keep in mind that this is more of a “normal” day, if there is such a thing, when both my associate and director were on the desk as well. When my associate and director were out of town traveling, my days changed a bit and I would get the opportunity to have more in-depth conversations with clients – this was definitely an enjoyable aspect of my job.

In terms of hours, usually I worked 60-75 hours a week – usually 7-9ish on week days and a bit of weekend work, on average. There were days when I didn’t get out until midnight, and others when I cruised out by 6. During slower periods, I might work more like 55 hours per week, but it really depended on your boss, workflow and group dynamic. There were people within my division who had different directors and covered different industries who probably worked under 60 hours/week on regular basis – they probably worked closer to 50-55 hours/week. That always frustrated me a bit, but, again, in my case it was the luck of the draw and group need that pretty much decided where I went.

Which task was your favorite and which task was your least favorite? Why?

Favorite task: Probably executing trades – there was a certain rush to it – and, when I had the opportunity, speaking to clients about their options, etc.

Least favorite task: Pricing swaption collars. Clients never did these and there were days when I’d spending 30 or more minutes pricing various swaption collars since our trading software didn’t make these as simple to price as a regular interest rate collar.

What skill sets do you believe to be essential to succeeding in S&T?

Honestly, I only feel comfortable speaking to the position that I held, although this is probably applicable to pretty much any position in S&T. Of course, there are the basics, as with most finance/math/analytical-intensive positions including: attention to detail, analytically-inclined, grasping the technical concepts, being able to multi-task, etc. There are also, however, two other points that sometimes aren’t quite as obvious that I think are also worth mentioning.

A willingness to learn and an interest in learning definitely rank high up on the list. A lot of tasks in the S&T world are going to be group specific/industry specific/product specific/how your director wants it done. You will not know this stuff before you enter the group; you will learn it on the job. Be open and interested in learning. Do not ever think you are too good to learn how to do something or how something works and do not assume you already know something. I’ve had more than my fair share of mistakes pointed out to me and different, whether better or just preferred ways of tackling projects, presenting findings, etc.

The second point is that you should try to get along with your co-workers as best you can. This is probably obvious to bankers, but many people going for S&T, or at least the T, don’t think that it is necessary to really be personable and get along with all of your co-workers. Yes, it can suck, but it is a relationship business. If your bosses do not like you, you might not get the most interesting projects or gain as much insight into the business that you can gain while just talking on the desk. Also, and perhaps most importantly, they might think that the clients will share their perspective and not like you either. In this case, you won’t be speaking or working with any clients and if you are not working with clients you probably won’t be advancing in this career anytime in the near future.

For those interested in a math-intensive position, which group within S&T do you recommend they pursue?

I would definitely recommend that they stick to the trading side of the business, ideally in a position that is specifically looking for some with programming and modeling skills. Although the trading side is probably the ideal side to be on, if you are in a corporate marketing position on the sales side, you may be able to use your math skills too.

What drew you to S&T instead of, for example, IB?

One of the reasons that I switched from journalism to finance while I was in college was an interest in investing and trading. As a former athlete, I was enamored by the competitive nature and the way of measuring your results and your skills with trades. Just as I couldn’t find my satisfaction in journalism, I wouldn’t be able to find it in most other quantitative areas outside of trading either, such as banking or research.

Why did you decide to leave?

As I mentioned before, I never really wanted to work in the type of group I was in – I was far more interested in the prop/trading side of the business. I feel bad saying it since I liked the people I worked with, but it was just a bad fit. I guess that I could have asked to be moved to a trading desk, but at the end of the day, it wasn’t just the group; I wanted a better work/life balance. Now I am not even in the S&T world anymore, in fact, I am completely out of the finance world and while I am missing the paychecks at the moment, I am enjoying the opportunities I have to pursue all of my other interests. Although, with the limited funds I now have, I still maintain a small portfolio and trade.

Is there anything you miss about the business?

I miss some of my colleagues. As I mentioned before, my colleagues were never the problem. In fact, depending on your desk, it can almost begin to feel like a family. And just like in a big family, there will be some people you love, and some people that you do not particularly care for at any given time – and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. When you spend over half of your day, five or more days a week with one group of people, you develop a bit of an affinity for them. Having Bloomberg at my fingertips was nice as well. Oh… and, as I mentioned before, the money was nice too. I miss having money sometimes…ok…many times.

If you could do it all over again, what would you have changed – whether it be in terms of group selection, work, preparation, etc?

I wish I would’ve taken more math and computer programming classes when I was an undergrad. I also wish that I would’ve pushed harder for a trading position – been more upfront about my interests instead of doing the usual interviewee thing and saying “I’ll be happy wherever.” Sometimes, and this is more of a personal thing, not as much of a missed opportunity thing, I wish I enjoyed networking more – I kind of hate networking. I feel like networking is using people, even though it’s not, and even if it is, everyone does it. I still do network sometimes, but I hate it. Also, I do not think I am particularly good at it. Thankfully S&T isn’t as big of a networking game as banking seems to be – it still matters though and it would’ve been nice to be better at it or at least enjoy it more so that I might have a shot at becoming better at it.

Any other advice for those interested in S&T and for those just starting their S&T programs?

Work hard in undergrad and try to build the technical skill sets you’ll need – not necessarily through coursework, but do some research on your own. Have confidence in yourself, but not arrogance, during interviews. Be open to learning regardless of your position – being open-minded and eager will give you far more options. Continue learning off the job and make friends with both your group and colleagues in other groups, especially if you want to potentially change groups and/or employers. Lastly, for those that haven’t yet broken into S&T, reach out to alumni, network with professionals and get your name out there. Having support will always help you get the interviews.

Rather than charge my readers for this guide, I came up with a better idea to help show my appreciation. Since now is the time for everyone to revise their resumes and brush up on their interview skills, instead of charging for this guide, I will simply give it to everyone who purchases one of my other services – in other words anyone who purchases either a resume revision package (Here) and/or an interview prep package (Here) will receive this guide in my follow-up thank you email.

That’s it!

There’s no code to enter, no special message, simply purchase a resume revision service package or an interview prep package and receive this 4-question guide for free. Although you will definitely be asked more than 3-4 questions during your interview, most, if not all of your interviews will ask you at least 2 of the questions in this guide, if not more.

Pick up your resume revision package or interview prep package now and start remedying more than 1 concern at a time!

I truly mean it when I say thank you to all of my readers, customers and subscribers who help keep this site running and help me to see that this site does help people break in – I know it’s a tough road, but it can definitely be done.

Thank you for all of your support and stay tuned for more articles (including an article specifically for those readers interested in Sales and Trading), another new product and much more! As always, comments go below and emails can be sent Here.

Although along the same line as many of the GPA questions, I encounter a large amount of questions related to, most commonly, these 3 standardized tests: the SAT, GMAT and LSAT. For those of you that don’t know, the GMAT is the test individuals take when preparing for business school, the LSAT for law school and the SAT, of course, is for undergrads (nothing terribly earth-shattering here, I know). Definitions aside, the most common questions regarding these exams involve their impact on bankers, which scores are high enough and not, and when you should list one, the other, both, all 3, etc.

Let me start off with the LSAT and let me be the first to shout that achieving a 170+ on the LSAT is impressive and well-done without question. Now, let me also be the first to tell you that bankers don’t give a damn. Yes a 170+ is great, but the LSAT, for those of you that forgot what you read a few sentences ago, is for law school, not business school and certainly not undergrad (the 2 places where IB recruits). While the score clearly shows that at the very least you are a good test taker, it also shows that you have an interest in law school, or at least are not certain if you want to go to law school (which also probably would lead them to believe that you don’t know if IB is for you). As a general rule of thumb, I would not include the LSAT in your resume, since it will open up way too many questions without any benefit.

Now let’s move on to the GMAT. With the GMAT, there are two sides to the coin or two situations to consider before we even consider schools. The first situation involves a current business school student (or alum). In this case, the GMAT is perfectly acceptable to put on your resume (provided you’ve got a score good enough to include) and I would definitely advise you to do so.

The second situation is a little stickier in that you have not yet attended business school. In this scenario, you might have taken the GMAT as a backup, with the intention of going next year, or with the intention of going in 3 years. In any case, if that GMAT is on your resume, you will often be asked “well are you planning to go to business school soon” during your interview. Remember, if you are applying for jobs after (or during) your initial post-U grad position, many employers will be looking to bring you on for longer than a year or 2 – therefore, you probably don’t want to outright say that you are gunning for business school, even if you are. You will need to develop an answer that puts their fears to rest (even if valid) if you want to have a good shot at landing the position (check this and this out for more help with nailing the interview. That said, if your SAT score is not that great, and/or if your GMAT score is really pretty strong (and you’ve crafted a good answer to the aforementioned question), then you should really consider including your GMAT on your resume in the education section as it will definitely help you to check off that ever-looming standardized test question (SAT or GMAT), especially if you are a few years out of U grad and with a less than top notch SAT score.

Now that you should be able to figure out when to include your GMAT, you need to know whether you should include it. Although you can get into business school with a wide range of scores, and a 650 is a very respectable score, generally speaking, I would recommend that you only include your score if it is a 700 or better (for investment banking – for other fields, I think a 660-670+ would definitely suffice). Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen strong resumes with a 680 GMAT listed, but as a general rule of thumb, the 700 is that magic check-the-box number, where, if a recruiter sees that, they won’t question it – it’s a really good score, check, and move on. As a side note, if you’ve got a 690 GMAT and a weaker SAT, it might not be a bad idea to include the GMAT score since the 690 is more current and still a very good score.

Next, when listing your GMAT score, don’t break out any additional details outside of your AWA IF, and only if, it is a 5.5 or better (personally I don’t think anything lower than a 6 should be listed, but I’ve seen enough 5.5s to know that it isn’t a terribly big deal). By breaking out details I am referring to your individual verbal and math scores. Listing a 720 is good enough – you do not have to go into your 49 in math, since you will be only calling attention to your verbal score that is a bit weaker – instead, just give me the great combined score and if the interviewer has additional questions, let him/her ask them.

Finally, we come to the ever-popular SAT. Where including the GMAT can result in questions, NOT including the SAT can also bring up questions. For students in business school, outside of U grad for several years, or who have taken the GMAT (outside of U grad, that is) and have a strong GMAT score, not including the SAT is not a big deal – occasionally a recruiter will want to know, but it is so long ago that it isn’t going to be a big deal breaker either way, even if you don’t remember. For undergrads, however, the SAT is often a recruiter’s easiest way to weed out several candidates in one push. While many recruiters won’t care about your SAT, many will and not including will raise a flag of “well how bad did he/she do” even if you did not do badly at all and just forgot to include it. That said, including a score that isn’t great for a recruiter that isn’t really looking might provide him/her an easy way to drop a quick ding. Therefore, knowing whether to include your resume is important.

As a general of thumb, scores less than a combined 2100 (1400 or so for those that took the old exam) do not need to be highlighted/included in your resume. In general, these scores are considered the “start” of the highly competitive scores and at this point and above, it would be silly to not include your score, since it will be seen as a positive or at worst a neutral (rather than no score, which could, on occasion, be seen as an implication of a negative). Scores below this threshold do not need to be included in your resume, although borderline scores (mid 2000s or high 1300s) can be included provided that the weaker aspect is not in your math section. Once you dip into the low 2000s (1300s) and below, you are no longer really helping your candidacy much by including your score and could be hurting it. What I mean by hurting it is not that your score is necessarily bad, but it isn’t great either and by giving it up outside of the interview or when they specifically request it, you are giving away non-beneficial information without providing them with as much beneficial information (interview skills, etc) first. In short, a 2100+ can and should be kept on, and anything lower than the low 2000s can be cut from your resume to keep the focus on your, hopefully, strong GPA.

Stay tuned for my next post on what exactly constitutes relevant coursework and titling your summer analyst and FT banking positions, a fresh product on the way and much more! Comments go below and emails can be sent Here!